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-   -   Club Car DS lithium upgrade and 4-Link (http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/all-things-lithium/145679-club-car-ds-lithium-upgrade-4-link.html)

NCPW 10-30-2018 10:04 AM

Re: Club Car DS lithium upgrade and 4-Link
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio (Post 1554773)
There are a lot of posts going on and it appears different terminology is being used.

There is only one setting named "Full Voltage", the first picture on post #69.

There are no settings named "Max Pack Voltage".

Only the cell monitoring, not overall pack, should trigger the LV and HV relays.

If You set the balancing voltage below "Max Charging Voltage"/"Number of Cells", the BMS will get hot as many shunts will be simultaneously active.

If You set the balancing voltage to "Max Charging Voltage"/"Number of Cells", statistically speaking no more than 50% of the cells should go into shunt mode unless the pack is severly out of balance, but the variation will get smaller with each 1 hour balancing session.

That is a slow process since the shunt current is very small.

The SOC should not reset at sleep since the BMS is still active, that may be an email to Zeva to clarify.

Yes, I was referring to "Full Voltage" in the last sentence of post #74

NCPW 10-30-2018 10:07 AM

Re: Club Car DS lithium upgrade and 4-Link
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleJerm76 (Post 1554783)
Lots of posts on this thread and others in the forum over BMS issues/questions. This appears to me to be the hardest part of the entire conversion.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's really not that hard. The BMS is working and keeping all cells with a few hundredths of a volt. I just want to make sure it's working as efficiently as possible so my pack last me as long as possible.

I'm loving the conversion so far and I'm glad I did it.

And thank you to everyone helping with my questions. This is a great forum. :thumbup:

Sergio 10-30-2018 11:07 AM

Re: Club Car DS lithium upgrade and 4-Link
 
I agree, this is just fine tuning like You do with an alltrax controller settings.

NCPW, if the cells are pretty close in voltage after the balancing phase at the end of the charging, then it means at least one of your cells has a greater internal resistance than the others and it is not keeping up with the others during charge.

The shunt can only by-pass a small amount of current and it will not prevent the cell from continuing to charge, it only slows how fast the cell voltage increases.

You may need to increase the delta between the "Balancing Voltage" and the "BMS Max Voltage"
Full Voltage: 58v
Max Charge Voltage: 58v
Balance Voltage: 4.14v
BMS Max Voltage: 4.19v
You can also just lower the charging settings but not the BMS Max (Cell) Voltage:
Full Voltage: 57v
Max Charge Voltage: 57v
Balance Voltage: 4.07v
BMS Max Voltage: 4.18v

ag4ever is probably correct in the interpretation of the "Full Voltage" setting, that setting may be more useful if you are using a "fixed output voltage" charger but it seems that if you can set that charger voltage output using CAN, that setting becomes redundant since you already know how much the charging voltage will be.

ag4ever 10-30-2018 11:48 AM

Re: Club Car DS lithium upgrade and 4-Link
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio (Post 1554773)
The SOC should not reset at sleep since the BMS is still active, that may be an email to Zeva to clarify.

This is all a learning process and I may be completely wrong, but I swear I have seen the SoC go down after riding around a bit, parked it overnight with the key off, not charged it, and when I get in the next time it is back to 100% SoC. (unless my wife is charging it without me knowing, but I doubt that. she does not like messing with my projects, and if she does she asks for clear directions. on this one, she just wants a cart that can be driven around the yard to pick up debris or tote kids around and does not want the fuss of charging, that is my responsibility)

I will do some more testing. We plan to go trick-or-treating on the cart tomorrow, so it should be a good test. Run it down some, leave it overnight without a charge and see what it does on Thursday.

Technically, since my "Full Voltage" is set at 58v, it should never reset the SoC. But, it does. My charge voltage does not ever hit 58v. Closer to 57.4v.

DaveTM 10-30-2018 12:10 PM

Re: Club Car DS lithium upgrade and 4-Link
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NCPW (Post 1551952)
Last night I let the charger run until it shutoff to test the HV relay. It did shut off but at 56.2V instead of the 58.38V I wanted it to. I'll have to figure that one out.

Just "thinking out loud" but you set the pack charge via your ZEVA. I'm not sure if your above statement say's you set the Elcon to charge the pack at 58.38 (4.17V per cell) or set the Elcon to charge the pack at 56.2 (4.01 per cell).

Either way, the question I have is what did you set your "Max Voltage" to be? The Max Voltage tells the BMS to shut down power to the relay if any one given cell goes over this per-cell setting. If you have the per cell Max Voltage at 4.01 per cell, then the ZEVA and your relays did the job if your pack charge was set to 58.38.

NCPW 10-30-2018 12:42 PM

Re: Club Car DS lithium upgrade and 4-Link
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveTM (Post 1554841)
Just "thinking out loud" but you set the pack charge via your ZEVA. I'm not sure if your above statement say's you set the Elcon to charge the pack at 58.38 (4.17V per cell) or set the Elcon to charge the pack at 56.2 (4.01 per cell).

Either way, the question I have is what did you set your "Max Voltage" to be? The Max Voltage tells the BMS to shut down power to the relay if any one given cell goes over this per-cell setting. If you have the per cell Max Voltage at 4.01 per cell, then the ZEVA and your relays did the job if your pack charge was set to 58.38.

Dave, I'm not using the TC Charger. I'm using an EV Battery Center charger via a HV relay. The Charger is set to max out at 58.4V +/- .3V.

Since that posting, I've been able to adjust the settings to get my top voltage closer to 58v. Now I'm just trying to fine tune it to lessen the stress on the BMS and get the most life out of the lithium pack.

Sergio 10-30-2018 12:49 PM

Re: Club Car DS lithium upgrade and 4-Link
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NCPW (Post 1554856)
Dave, I'm not using the TC Charger. I'm using an EV Battery Center charger via a HV relay. The Charger is set to max out at 58.4V +/- .3V.

Since that posting, I've been able to adjust the settings to get my top voltage closer to 58v. Now I'm just trying to fine tune it to lessen the stress on the BMS and get the most life out of the lithium pack.

Sorry I missed that part entirely on your posts, new suggestion (You probably already have these settings):
Full Voltage: 58v
Balance Voltage: 4.17v
BMS Max Voltage: 4.19v
The only way to get a lower final pack voltage in your case is to trigger the HV relay since there is no CAN control.

NCPW 10-30-2018 12:54 PM

Re: Club Car DS lithium upgrade and 4-Link
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio (Post 1554857)
Sorry I missed that part entirely on your posts, new suggestion (You probably already have these settings):
Full Voltage: 58v
Balance Voltage: 4.17v
BMS Max Voltage: 4.19v
The only way to get a lower final pack voltage in your case is to trigger the HV relay since there is no CAN control.

I haven't tried those yet Sergio.

I currently have:
Full Voltage: 58v
Balance Voltage: 4.14v
BMS Max Voltage: 4.18v

I thought about it but wasn't too sure about bumping the balancing voltage or max BMS voltage that high because I didn't want to creep any closer to 4.2v.

NoleFan4Ever 10-30-2018 02:43 PM

Re: Club Car DS lithium upgrade and 4-Link
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NCPW (Post 1554856)
DI'm using an EV Battery Center charger via a HV relay. The Charger is set to max out at 58.4V +/- .3V.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sergio (Post 1554857)
Sorry I missed that part entirely on your posts

NCPW/Sergio- If either one of you happen to stumble across a way to adjust the 58.4 volt chargers we got from EV Battery Center let me know. I checked with Nelly and she said they are ordered that way and they do not know how to adjust the dead-band on them.....

NCPW 10-30-2018 02:50 PM

Re: Club Car DS lithium upgrade and 4-Link
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by NoleFan4Ever (Post 1554891)
NCPW/Sergio- If either one of you happen to stumble across a way to adjust the 58.4 volt chargers we got from EV Battery Center let me know. I checked with Nelly and she said they are ordered that way and they do not know how to adjust the dead-band on them.....

Will do. :thumbup:

I remember reading one time the QuickCharge lithium chargers (which were set by the manufacturer to whatever desired voltage you requested) could be adjusted by a very small pot under the housing using minute turns in either CW or CCW rotation.

I wonder if ours could be adjusted the same way? I haven't opened mine up to find out.


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