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Unread 09-05-2018, 09:14 PM   #1
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Default Sourcing Leaf Battery Modules

I am looking to change from my 6-8V FLA setup in my 2012 Precedent to a 7 module Leaf pack setup.

Where is the most reliable place to source good modules. Are the ebay sellers ok? Is evbatterycenter still suppling “certified” batteries, knowing Nick passed away last year? Is thunderstruckev ok, I don’t see where they indicate actual capacity?

I think I have the BMS and charger figured out, just need a source for quality batteries. (Planning to use ZEVA V3 BMS system with a TC Charger on a CANBUS with the monitor.)

I would like individual batteries and build the pack myself.

Thanks,
Robert
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Unread 09-06-2018, 08:28 PM   #2
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Default Re: Sourcing Leaf Battery Modules

FWIW....I just purchased 7 Leaf modules from AZLithium from Ebay. Another individual on this forum purchased from him and received a quality used battery.

I can't say yeah or nay at this point as I won't receive my 7 modules until 9-12-18. And even at that point all I can do is put the multimeter on 'em to test the voltage.

Right now I'm looking at a BMS of either ZEVA or perhaps Chargery.

I concur with you that a monitor for the system is pretty much a must.

FWIW
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Unread 09-06-2018, 09:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: Sourcing Leaf Battery Modules

I emailed EV Battery Center, and Neil responded.

It is $284 more to get them from her, but they guarantee 58 amp-hour capacity. The ebay ones say 50-55 amp-hour. The ebay modules are the one model year newer car, and 2,000 less miles. But, there is now way to know how well they were maintained, how many quick charges, etc...

The ebay ones are probably just as good and have equal or more amp-hour capacity as EV Batt, but I think I will pay the premium for the warm and fuzzy guarantee.

If you get the zeva, what system would you get? The integrated battery management, or the manager with 2 monitors? From reading, it appears the manager with the monitors will do active balancing while charging, but the integrated will only top balance once it reaches the cut off value.

I emailed zeva last night, but have not heard from them.

I looked at the Chargery, system and it appears you must have internet access to get data to a tablet or phone. If this is true that eliminates that system as I use the cart on a ranch in central Texas that does not have cell phone coverage.

I also looked at the REC BMS, but keep going back to zeva.
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Unread 09-07-2018, 09:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: Sourcing Leaf Battery Modules

I'm looking at the ZEVA as well. I read about half of their BMS16v2 Manual so far. For using less than 12 cells (as I initially will) there is a specific way to wire the BMS.....but it's not rocket science. (Which is good 'cause I'm not a rocket scientist.)

From what I've read so far on the ZEVA, if you connect "a wire to a ground terminal" it will shut down the parasitic drain caused by the BMS when any given cell reaches the low cutoff point. I dunno how to connect the wire yet.....I haven't read that far.

I did send an email to ZEVA and they got back to me in 24 hours with a response to my relatively simple question.

I can't recall right now (my brain only holds so much info on stuff I am learning.....but ask me about tax law and I can likely spit out an answer in seconds) but I don't know if ZEVA offers a charger.....or recommends one. Plus electric stuff like "Shunt" and double pole gobbodly gook.
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Unread 09-07-2018, 10:40 AM   #5
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Default Re: Sourcing Leaf Battery Modules

The shunt is only a current reading/measurement device. Basically a "gas" gauge sending unit. Since lithium batteries don't discharge at the same voltage rate as FLA batteries, you can't determine state of charge or capacity by reading the voltage levels. This is why the shunt is used. It measure the volume of energy passing through it and reports to the BMS that then displays the State of Charge. You can use a shunt or a hall effect sensor for current flow measurements. Shunts work by flowing current trough them (contact) Hall Effect measures the electrical field differential flowing trough the ring (non-contact). Both are good ways to measure and their accuracy is more dependent on the quality of device than the type of device.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curren...ing_techniques

If you are using a Leaf Module pack and using 7 modules like most, then you will have 14 cells.

I got a response from Zeza last night (remember they are down under, I am in Texas). They recommended the BMS16v2. The only issue is I plan to double my battery pack in the future. This system can't handle 2 - 2p14s cell packs. Their recommendation was to parallel 2 modules and have a single 4p14s battery pack as the BMS sees it.

2p14s = 1 set of 7 Leaf Modules, each leaf module is 2p2s (2 parallel, 2 series cells).

I have not gotten a follow-up response on the balance technique differences between the BMS16v2 vs the BMS12v3. (The BMS12v3 requires a separate brain module.)

For the charger, you can use almost any that provides the appropriate voltage profile for the LiMn2O4 with LiNiO2 battery chemistry. Most are using the TC Charger with Zeva due to the CANBUS interface compatibility and the ability to control with the same display from Zeva.

This whole lithium swap was instigated due to my LFA reading 0V when I went to the hunting lease last weekend. I had left the cart on the charger at the end of last season with the intention of bring it home a month latter. 1 month turned into 8 months, and the acid levels boiled down past the tops of the lead plates. I was sure I could not revive the 3.5 year old batteries. But now I am getting 50.31V after working with the batteries and using a PowerPulse de-sulfate device. Now I am on the fence over doing the swap now, or seeing if I have a bit more time out of this abused FLA pack and doing it latter. I was able to get a 7 mile range out of the battery ruining them down to 55% capacity last night. I really need about 10 miles to feel comfortable using it on the ranch again.
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Unread 09-07-2018, 03:17 PM   #6
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Default Re: Sourcing Leaf Battery Modules

I've seen a few times on the forum where people try to recover dead FLAs. Each time it looks promising but then they have issues with the batteries and the voltages start to slide somewhat quickly. If you can do it with the Power Pulse, then good on you. If you plan is to convert to lithium I'd go ahead and start that process.

For a hunting cart I'd think you'd love lithium. My cart had the 6 FLAs plus a marine deep cycle, I ditched all of that and replaced the full thing with lithium. 390 pounds lighter! Imagine how well the cart could get through the brush and muck if it weighted 390 pounds less...
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Unread 09-07-2018, 06:48 PM   #7
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Default Re: Sourcing Leaf Battery Modules

I went ahead and bit the bullet, got 7 modules ordered from Neli.

I know the lighter weight will be great. Luckily, most of the trails on the ranch are rock/granite since it is north-west of Austin around many granite mines.

Now I just need to figure out where to order the tc charger to be sure it is setup for can communication and has the correct charge profile. Keep looking on aliexpress and alibaba, but can’t seem to find a seller I know is legit.

Also need to decide which zeva bms to get, waiting on confirmation from them on balance techniques that each system employs.

Then it will be sourcing Buss bars, wire, mounting plates, etc...

Hope the FLA batteries hold out till all parts are here and it can be converted. Archery season starts 9/29 and that is all I really do. Figure I will be running FLA for the first couple weekends.
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Unread 09-07-2018, 09:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: Sourcing Leaf Battery Modules

You can order the bus bars, wires leads and orange protective covers from Neli too. She may even have the end plates too. If not, since 1/8" aluminum will work just fine.
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Unread 09-08-2018, 12:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: Sourcing Leaf Battery Modules

I have ordered:

Gigavac
48v relay
48v manual switch

Zeva
Bms16v2
Bms display
600 amp hall sensor

Evbattery
7 modules
(Looking into the Bush bar/mounting plates)

Need
Charger
Fuse
115 plug
Anderson plug?

What size fuses are people using?

Long term goal is to upgrade the controller and motor.
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Unread 09-09-2018, 05:44 PM   #10
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Default Re: Sourcing Leaf Battery Modules

Well, FWIW I've read both the BMS16v2 and the BMS12v2 owners manuals that I downloaded from ZEVA's web sight. From what I've read I think I'm going to go with the BMS12v2 model. I am going to have 7 modules....and will go to add another 7 if I decide I need more AH.

My only reason is because when I read the manuals, I seem to get a better understanding of the 12v2 vs the 16v2.
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