Honda Clarity battery packs

swsawyer@reagan.com

Does anyone have any experience or informed opinions on using Honda Clarity lithium batteries?

I see some on eBay and they seem to be a decent buy. Just wanting to get some second (third, fourth, etc.) opinions before I make a decision.

Thanks for the input, as always.

Sean


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BGW

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MCJEFE

I was looking at some earlier this morning I think on AZLithium's website. After digging a bit it looks like they are the same as the Panasonic cells used in the C-Max. Only they increased to 28ah (x12 cells per pack) in the Honda vice 24ah or 5.5 in the C-Max (x21 cells per pack).

I think they are to small for a main battery pack for my liking but I was thinking that they would make a decent auxiliary battery as a 12v, 3S 4P, 112ah pack... Add in a BMS, charger + odds and ends and your looking at $300-350.

The things that you think about when you can't sleep. Lol

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MCJEFE

Edit.
It's definitely not the Panasonic cells I was hoping for.

It looks like Honda has been partnered with (and possibly 49% owned by Honda) Blue Energy for all of their lithium packs. They in 2018 they signed a contract with CATL to provide their lithium packs until 2030...

If these are the new cells from CATL then we're going to probably see many more start coming available over the next few years.

It also seems that the cell terminals are soldered or more likely spot welded so modules are not easily disassembled for other uses.

On the upside there's 14 total 48v modules in each pack and it may be possible to parallel enough to make a decent golf cart pack. Also their smaller size may give more flexibility.

The downside is the larger # of modules means more to fail, wire up, monitor and mount in the cart.

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EZAir1

I ordered a set today for my Yamaha G29. Trying the 24 cell 56ah 48 volt. Can always add more if needed, but Jimmy suggested this would be fine with my limited use. Once every week or 2, 2-3 miles shooting sporting clays. He thought it would be good for 12-15 miles where I travel.

MCJEFE

Nice, that should be AH enough for your needs.

What are you thinking for a BMS, HV/LV disconnects and charger? I would be interested in seeing how do it.

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EZAir1

I'll let you know, I'm interested to see how I do it too, lol.
Comes with Chargery C10325 1500watt Charger.

MCJEFE

I'm not really up on Chargery stuff. I read that's a good charger, but its still just a charger and I think the advertising is a little misleading. If I am reading correctly the charger does provide some voltage and current protection while charging your pack, but it doesn't really explain its only while charging... It does not actually provide constant individual cell monitoring or post charge cell balancing. It also will not disconnect or isolate the pack if your kids or friends are out cruising and don't notice the pack voltage dropping to dangerous levels...

I strongly recommend that you add a BMS of some type to your project to protect your pack. Possibly a Chargery BMS24T to work with your charger...

I personally will not install or operate a lithium pack without a BMS to monitor individual cells with HV/LV protection and actually disconnects the pack if necessary.

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cricketo

That Chargery charger has two modes : actually a charger, and power supply.
In charger mode you pick the chemistry, size of the pack, and current. In power supply mode naturally you just pick voltage and current.

The problem is the charger implements load detection in charger mode, and if it doesn't see a significant draw when charging is initiated, it considers the pack fully charged and goes offline. That is what is going to happen when connected via BMS that has MOSFETs in the charging path and implements its own charger detection. Such as TinyBMS...

I ran into this problem, and figured - well, I will charge my pack in the power supply mode then. It's actually pretty common to use repurposed power supplies to charge this stuff, as long as it's done via a BMS. So that worked a couple of times when I terminated the charging early. One time I allowed it to charge the pack fully, and the moment BMS disconnected it, it went puff.... Jason from Chargery confirmed it won't tolerate load dropping out like that.

I sent it to Jason for repairs 3 months ago. Still waiting for it back :) Bottom line, that charger likely won't work correctly with any other BMS, at least not without integrating the two via the comms port.

EZAir1

Didn't realize the big debate between BMS or no BMS. Doing a lot of reading.
Battery seller not a big fan of it with these batteries, in this particular application.

BBBHC

Interesting...
Did they say why they are not a fan? Is it just because of the added cost?
BMSs are designed for longevity of batteries as well as for safety. What is the chemistry of the Honda Clarity batteries?