New clone vs used vanguard

Yamahama

I know this has been discussed to death but I feel like talking about some more since it's something I'm actively contemplating.

I have Yamaha G2. Currently had a little itty bitty Honda gx 240. I had planned to buy and build a 440 clone for next year. I'm in Canada so shipping is a killer and Canadian money is worth less than USD.

A new bare bones 440 clone would cost about 325 Canadian dollars. Then I would need a connecting rod ($170), push rods ($50), VC cam ($80), valve springs ($25) and probably rockers ($80?).

That's over $700 Canadian for a reliable 18-20 hp and 6000rpm.

Now, where I'm having trouble with this idea is that I keep seeing used 16hp vanguards for sale for about $350 Canadian. Assuming the vanguard isn't worn out, my understanding is that all it needs is a rev kit (valve springs and timing key?) to make 18-20hp and 6000rpm..

Assuming i can get a rev kit for a 16hp vanguard to my door for under $100 Canadian, I could have 18-20hp and full pressure lube for under $450 Canadian all in.

So ~$450 for the vanguard vs ~$750 for the clone.

The vanguard seems like a no brainer.

Does this all make sense?

I'm not knocking clones. I'm really just looking for confirmation that I'm not missing some important detail in my comparison. I tried to read all the old threads but there was far too much opinion being thrown around.

Assuming I'm correct in my comparison, I've decided to pickup a 16 hp vanguard, install cpp's rev kit, advance the stock cam 1 tooth and see how it does turning 26" tires with stock gearing.

BGW

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Shepard

I've just bought the VC 460 clone. 599.00 - free shipping. 25 reliable horse power, hopefully no issues. Comes with billet rod and torque cam and 10 bolt engine block and 90 day warranty.

Used "Mystery" motor - unknown use - unknown condition. You want it to turn 6000 rpm. You want reliability -- you need to rebuild it, not just add parts to make it spin faster then it has in its whole life.

I wouldn't trust anyone's word in this day and age, especially if your buying over the net. Clone engine from Vegas Carts = 90 day warranty. Mystery motor = zero warranty = 100% total lose if it blows a rod through the block. If I were to buy a V-twin used -- I would rebuild it before using it at that rpm.

Yamahama

That's a great point. One issue, though, is that since i live in Canada that $599 motor is more like $700 Canadian plus $100 to ship it to me... that's $800. I can bore a vanguard and put new pistons in it for less if I find one for under $400.

Since I don't live in the US comparison a little different. I can buy used for Canadian dollars but have to spend US dollars for the new clone from VC.

Chances are with my luck, when I go to buy a vanguard this fall I won't be able to find one and I'll end up getting a clone anyway. I keep seeing a bunch for sale right now because I don't have the money for one.

Shepard

Here's a company that specializes in hot rod V-twin parts.


http://eccarburetors.com/estore/bill...nguard-18-20hp

nobuckbuild

so where in canada do you live , i understand the money difference simply because im up that way all the time at the falls , i would go with the vanguard simply for the economics of the situation any locally sourced engine even with a complete rebuild is going to be cheaper than shipping from the usa , say you find one for 200 cad running , thats a start and another 250 usd in parts that should get you in cheaper than just the cost of a clone

slonomo

I've had both. I can tell you that the Vanguard Vtwin engine is a smoother, better running engine, with a proven track record. And....it will out perform a clone when built the same. The torque difference is incredible. Read some of my threads.

If it were me, I'd do what nobuckbuild said. Go with the Vanguard. He might be able to hook you up.

BigBlockMan

Vanguard all the way!! Also keep in mind that's 25 internet HP on the clone. NO WAY in real life, and NEVER have the torque of a V-Twin

Yamahama

I'm in central Ontario so I'm an hour north of Toronto or about 2.5 hours from Niagara falls. I'm going to try to gather vanguard parts over the next few months. Is there any benefit to buying an 18 hp vanguard with a rod through the case for parts for $100 or would all the useful parts be destroyed?

I was looking at a running 16hp vanguard last week for 350 but it sold this week. I'm not in a rush and I'd prefer to gather parts over time. I have trouble justifying a new golf cart engine to my wife when the one I've already got works fine (so slow in hills and no way it'll turn 26" tires!)

TheNewGuy

I have both engines and have for many years, Vanguard all the way!!

Ron


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fisherj21

last summer i picked up a used 16hp vanguard for $50 and it ran great, all i did was put a rev kit, removed governor and advanced the cam 1 tooth and that thing runs great and i have beat the crap out of it, just because a engine is used and has never revved high doesnt mean that if you put a rev kit in it, its gunna grenade itself, i just recently bought a 18hp vanguard for $150 in great shape, i put a rev kit in that, removed governor, put the 16hp heads on to bump up compression and i advanced the cam 1 tooth and that thing runs awesome and i havent had any problems with it, i used to have a 420 clone, the clones are good engines and they are a good deal for someone wanting a cheap new engine, but after going with the v twin i will never go back to a clone, the power, the torque, the smoothness and of course they sound awesome is way better then a clone, i have less money invested into 2 v twins then i did for 1 new clone with mods.