Difference in sizes?

Tonka329

I know the Vanguard twins provide a very large upgrade in torque and horsepower than any stock engine! I'm pretty sure they are all based on the same top speed. I am curious to know what the difference between the 16 and the 23? Is it the torque or maybe a bit more top speed...

BGW

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sho305

Depends on what you do, most lawn engines govern to 3600rpm around what a cart runs with the governor all the way up. A yamaha G9 will hit around 5000rpm with no governor and so will most lawn engines some 5500. Now a 18 vanguard has a shorter stroke so it will rev higher, but you have to put a rev kit in any of them to rev hard with no governor. They are not that much for a vanguard. So the 18 is actually the fastest if you do nothing but governor removal and a rev kit they will turn 6000 in a yamaha lifted about 45mph with stock gears. The 23 has more torque at lower rpm sure, but will not rev as hard. And sure you can get cams and all that for them to go far beyond that. I think honda has a rev kit now but I don't know what you get out of it, I imagine similar to the 23hp if that but don't know. Other engines you will have to research, they race some kohlers in tractors. The kawasaki is a great engine like the vanguard those two rev the best totally stock, but I don't know if you can get a rev kit for them.

Oh I see you said 16 not 18. I don't really know most run the 18 which is often said to be the same as a 20hp. IIRC the 16 is smaller, but not enough have run them to say much on here. The 16 clone I put in may not even be 16hp but it has around double the power easy, lots of torque but top speed is near the same. The 13 clone will rev a little more, that is all stock but no governor. I would think the 16 vanguard would rev more no problem, even all stock but no governor. If you do hills then the larger engine helps more with the torque at lower speeds.

Note that even the clone, or any larger engine, if it only runs the same top rpm it gets there way faster. It takes a while to hit top speed with stock G9 lifted, mine runs 30 mph gps on a road. The clone does it in maybe 1/3 the distance like 50yd or something not 700'+.

Flintrock

Here's some info I put together a while ago on the Vanguards. The difference in HP in the 35 and 38 series is single versus double barrel carbs. The other interesting difference is that the stroke is the same on these two series, only the bore is different. I don't know if the cam configuration is different, but technically the 23 should rev just as easy as the 18.........


Hmm.... systems not letting me attach any documents...will try again later.

sho305

I'm not sure on the specs, but that is what everyone says the 18 goes the fastest, with no mods other than the rev kit which is iirc pushrods/guide plate/spring shims or something like that.

If you use the same cam in a smaller and then larger displacement, the smaller one will rev higher usually and have less torque. Advancing the timing may help too its just a offset key in the flywheel, but I'm not up on the best vanguard mods. More timing usually helps at high rpm, the coils advance some not sure how much.

Tonka329

Thanks for the info sho! No big deal. the 16/18 compared to the 23! Either or!

Flintrock

Here's the comparison. All I'm saying is that there seems to be no physical reason for the 21/23 to rev less than the 18/20 hp with only mod being a rev kit. I know we have all heard that's the case, but the stroke is the same, not longer.

Attached Images

SP32-20110512-083312.gif (7.0 KB, 22 views)

Flintrock

Here's some more food for thought: The difference in torque between the 18 and 23 hp is minimal...........less than 10%.


Here's the curve for the 16 HP as well......much bigger difference.

Attached Images

	torque-specs-18HP.jpg (14.6 KB, 29 views)
	torque-specs-23HP.jpg (14.4 KB, 26 views)
	torque-specs-16HP.jpg (14.2 KB, 19 views)

Tonka329

Thanks Flint! So is the 23 just a number on the side of the engine or is there a difference?

sho305

If those torque charts are right, only clue I can see is the one is dropping like a brick at 3600 while the other is rolling off less even though its lower....so at 5K rpm it might be higher.

Actually if the 18 is that fast, and the 20 is an 18 with a better flowing carb, then the 20 should be faster on top end than the 18.

Tonka329

Maybe the 16 or the 18 will do just fine...