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Big Block Talk! Everything about swapping a big block engine into your cart!



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Unread 12-30-2012, 07:47 PM   #11
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Default Re: BB in my future...opinions for the new guy

So, for $250, is the 23 Vanguard not worth the dough over the 18? Initially, I figured I'd go conservative, but came around to thinking more ponies might be the way to go. If I'm going to do it, I want to be thrilled, but I also don't want an engine that will need more than oil changes for the next 5-10 years. =]

I used to mod sleds (ice drags) and those things would come alive with the right mods. Trouble was, they didn't last. Same thing with BB's in boats. We can get 100mph for a few fun weekends, but the clock is ticking when things are pushed. I was kinda hoping for a stock setup that would be an offroad thrill for 4 adults, no worries. Like I say, I'm simply amazed by the old Robin (realiability, not power).

I'm also a bit old school on 4 stoker Briggs. Everything I have is cast iron, and in GT pulling circles, you se a lot of the aluminum blocks with holes in them. I just figured a larger displacment engine may not work itself to the redline as often as something smaller.

I could be all washed up though...which is why I'm asking, and truly appreciate the feedback! I really don't know anyone else with a cart, so 'cart talk' has never been part of my vocabulary. I'm really enjoying reading through the site and checking out some vids. Mine gets so, so much use, but it's always been a tool/toy and frankly, neglected (but VERY much appreciated!).
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Unread 12-30-2012, 08:00 PM   #12
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Default Re: BB in my future...opinions for the new guy

Quote:
Originally Posted by pachanga90 View Post
A quick-mod is to put the 23hp heads on the 16/18hp twins.
The 16hp heads will give you more compression than the 23hp heads. If you want low end power, go with the 16hp heads. If you want more high end revs, go with the 23hp heads.
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Unread 12-30-2012, 09:32 PM   #13
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Default Re: BB in my future...opinions for the new guy

You can run the Vannies bone stock,except for removing the internal-govenor parts.The biggest thing is to keep an eye(or ear)on the RPMs'.You can run quick blasts at higher rs',but running them wound up for too long brings great sadness.We haven't done anything to the 2 Vannies,or my Opposed other than put them in the carts,and they get pounded on.My Dad lets my Nephews ride his all the time and he has just enough room to turn them loose,then slow down again,so it helps to keep the motors together.Synthetic Oils are a definite plus as well.Bigger is better,but a 18 is quite a bit different from your original engine.The Stock Ez-Go motors aren't know for being a powerhouse.Reliable and run good,yes,powerful,not so much.I can't speak for Club-Car motors,since I haven't been involved with them,but a stock Yami single,such as a G16 is a nite/day difference to a Ez-Go Twin.If the price is close on the 18 and the 23,go for the 23,I think even the 18 will still be more than you need for a work/play cart,but I always like bigger,since I push them as hard as they will let me!
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Unread 12-31-2012, 01:57 AM   #14
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Default Re: BB in my future...opinions for the new guy

Don't push a stock Vanguard past 3600rpms or you will have trouble. The first thing to go will be the pushrods. After that, you'll drop a valve because of the stamped spring retainers. Ask me how I know... I caught mine just after I bent 2 pushrods. I'm in the process of upgrading right now.
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Unread 12-31-2012, 06:07 AM   #15
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Default Re: BB in my future...opinions for the new guy

Ok...here's what I'm thinking. To have an engine that will last the longest, under heavy use, a 23 will probably do the work easier than an 18, considering I don't really want to mod anything. Since I don't really want to go fast (but want to pull a load without being underpowered), I can probably be more than happy with top speed at stock WOT of 3600prm, correct? Anyone know how fast one of these will go, with the stock, CCP kit? My assumption would be the same as my Robin's best...low 20's? I'd like to do that kind of speed, but pushing a windshield, enclosure, 4 adults, going uphill on a gravel road. =] What does the CCP high rev kit get you? Is that when pushrods become threatened?

What I'd really like to do is pull a ditchbank without bogging down...will I toast a belt in those situations? I've burned a few pretty bad with the old 9 horse before going to the snug fit belt I have now.
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Unread 12-31-2012, 06:27 AM   #16
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Default Re: BB in my future...opinions for the new guy

Where are my manners, anyway. Here's a few pics I had on my work laptop of the cart in question. I aim for function, and we have a lot of fun working it hard. Just need more power, better steering control and better traction. I wouldn't mind an enclosure since we do use it 4 seasons, and rainy days stuck in the camper at deercamp get long and boring. (You can only play so much Texas hold em, and drink so much booze)
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Unread 12-31-2012, 07:11 AM   #17
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Default Re: BB in my future...opinions for the new guy

[QUOTE=Talntedmrgreen;820402]So, for $250, is the 23 Vanguard not worth the dough over the 18? Initially, I figured I'd go conservative, but came around to thinking more ponies might be the way to go. If I'm going to do it, I want to be thrilled, but I also don't want an engine that will need more than oil changes for the next 5-10 years. =]

I had all the same questions running thru my mind when I decided to do the upgrade. I didn't want to say "What if...", so I got the 23, with the cam and rev kit. The kit is an easy install--I think the EZ comes with a new engine cradle--the Yamaha did not. It hooks up thru the cart governor which is OK.
Torque is great, plenty of pulling power, and 30+ with 22" tires. It's great--I love it
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Unread 12-31-2012, 07:12 AM   #18
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Default Re: BB in my future...opinions for the new guy

Every time I do something to my v-twin, I get used to the power increase, then I want more. It seems to be a never ending quest for more. I guess to much just isn't enough. Once you do the swap you will be hooked.
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Unread 12-31-2012, 08:24 AM   #19
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Default Re: BB in my future...opinions for the new guy

Thanks for the vids Sho! I watched all of yours then I watched Culo do his wheelie on his G9! Always good stuff!
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Unread 12-31-2012, 01:57 PM   #20
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Default Re: BB in my future...opinions for the new guy

You can run about 4K rpm with the stock governor in a vanguard (with a little adjustment) and run it like that for years...as with a Kawasaki. They valve float and trash the pushrods around 5K depending on use, the rev kit was around $110 all it does is beef up the rods and increase valve spring pressure so they stay put.

The issue with a cart is the stock lower gearing runs out, so your top speed is how high the engine will rev. You can put HS gears in, but not free. If you keep the cart governor or lawn engine governor and don't care about 25mph or more then its not really an issue.

Far as hills its best to work on the clutches, for example a yamaha you cut the secondary to push the belt up higher and that gives a lower gear at takeoff. This helps it rev faster and pull better at low speeds. You don't need big secondary springs with BB engines in yamis, you have the power it will never bog unless the clutches are screwed up. However power is no longer the issue usually, even a clone will spin up a hill at 15hp with 22s. Have to remember that its a huge power difference, and yes you do get used to it fast lol. I'd say the place my clone does not show a lot of power is when I am pulling a boat (16-18' powerboat, fiberglass) and it does take off much faster but at 10mph you floor it and it meets its match. Of course I don't go over that much anyway its not very safe.

I've read over and over a 18 vanguard will beat a 23 in a drag race or top speed given both have rev kit and no governors. I don't really know why other than the 18 has more zip and revs better. The 23 does have more power, both can have more yet with mods if they are in your future.

You can mod them until you put a cam in, then you better be careful about reliability. There is a point you need to put billet rods in and things like that, better valvetrain, etc. however you will not get there long as you use the stock cam. Note a stock cam does not pull very much after 5K anyway. My clone is worse, it pulls like a train up to about 4800 then it falls on its face by 5K and I wait for anther 100 rpm on the tach. And that is with ported and cut head, though jetting is not perfect yet I'd like to use a different carb eventually.

With a CVT you can burn the belt any time you are under engagement speed, which is around 5mph with a stock cart gear. Sleds are the same way. Once you are moving the belt is turning and its all good. So you burned the belt due to lack of power that could not get the cart moving. If you stop on a hill with a BB, you could burn it, though even old ancient sleds had 35hp and engaged at 3K rpm....is where these CVT came from.
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