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Old 11-28-2015, 12:24 PM   #1
Brian Boyer
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Default I'm building a 420 for marine use

Im building a 420cc Lifan for my river boat,.. (Think light& fast vs heavy and torque required)

I opted for the elect start model with 18amp charging circuit,.. And its critical i keep both features.

I need to build the motor mildly/ nothing crazy. I want to build it reasonably so im not having to change the connecting rod or flywheel.

This is important so you understand what i'm doing with it: after the build if its soaring 1,500-2,000 rpms higher than i aimed for ITS NO BIG DEAL,.. Re-propping these motors is a $15 proposition/ ni biggie.

I'm trying to put a basic plan together and am hoping to pick you all's brains if you would be willing to help me.

(Oh,.. Exhaust~ im not crazy about crazy loud for an hour at a time so i'm looking at different exhaust alternatives, even hogging out the stock muffler and re-installing it,.. I'll likely leave the stock air cleaner in place/ but remove the outer plastic cover,.. For what i'm doing the K&N solution is kind of silly IMO)

Thanks guys
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Old 11-28-2015, 12:55 PM   #2
raydhd
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Default Re: I'm building a 420 for marine use

The 1.3 rocker arms and either a vegascarts carb or rejet the stock one along with one of the advanced timing keys.The comp cams valve springs and moly push rods if you take out the governor.
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Old 11-28-2015, 01:04 PM   #3
Brian Boyer
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Default Re: I'm building a 420 for marine use

Thank you, i am following the thread.. Yes eventually i will remove the governor. I want to see how it performs in stock form first, and after that i'll likely run it a while for break-in in stock form.

The engine is in route, the first one was damaged in transit, Home Depot gave me $40 off for my trouble. Happy with Home Depots service so far.
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Old 11-28-2015, 09:13 PM   #4
Brian Boyer
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Default Re: I'm building a 420 for marine use

One reply, bummer..

I'll keep checking in..

Guess i'll try to copy as much of the Vegas Carts 460 as i can within a reasonable build,.. Eliminating the things i know will not be required for my needs.
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Old 11-28-2015, 10:16 PM   #5
Streetbu
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Default Re: I'm building a 420 for marine use

If you're going to spin the engine more than 1K rpm over where the factory governor is set, replace the rod, otherwise you'll be replacing the whole engine when the stock rod breaks and knocks a big hole in the block. Port the head, heavier valve springs, VC carts carb or aftermarket mikuni.
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Old 11-29-2015, 07:08 AM   #6
Brian Boyer
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Default Re: I'm building a 420 for marine use

What is the max rpm on the stock 420's anyhow?

(Never mind i found it, well heck i better see where gov removal puts me then, i'll likely be at 4,600 with just that)
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:06 PM   #7
sho305
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Default Re: I'm building a 420 for marine use

Max rpm is 3600 like with most lawn engines. Modding mine I found it pulls hardest at about 4K rpm, this is with stock cam/rod using ported and .050 cut head, 1.3 rockers, HD springs, 4 degree timing key (the 4 degree key and .050 cut were max I could go and run regular fuel), and 1" header to a car muffler, custom airbox system from a car with 2.5" pvc to front of cart, stock carb jetted richer, came with thin metal head gasket still in there, governor removed. It will rev to over 5K but you will never need that in a boat application. So I would figure on 3400-4K range for the stock cam depending on what mods you do to it. If you put a rod in you can get into one of the marine/torque cams that will make a big difference in power. Just be careful as most mods are for gokarts and they rev them hard, its not what you want for a marine build. There should be some sites for mud motors that might have some build info for you. You will likely want to put a rod in it if you are going to run it WOT for a distance, yes they cost that much but then you can do whatever you want with it. You will have to get valvetrain parts to work with whatever cam you use. For example NR racing has marine and torque cams for them that would be better choices to do what you want. Vegas has that mild cheater cam that would likely work because its a modded stock cam, it would be a nice mild upgrade and is cheap, they are called cheater cams because in racing they limit lift to stock levels, so they add some duration but not lift. This frees up the top end power of the cam without making major changes. Usually with a boat motor you want to prop to run just over max power, if your engine makes best power at 3600 you would prop to run 3800-4K, and install needed parts to run that constantly such as valvetrain/rod, etc. Typically you can run stock rod in a clone long as you run stock cam, because it wont pull much over 4k and it will die by 5500 or so because at 6K the stock rod can't oil and will fail. Under more power it will also fail (with a larger cam). The only issue is with a boat you may run it WOT max rpm for 20 minutes at a time so you have to figure its harder on it than typical kart or golf cart use. I can't floor mine very long or I will run into something. They also say at 6K or more the flywheel is no longer safe, either get a honda one or aftermarket. Though clone quality seems to be getting better all the time and lifan is one of the better ones, they are the largest maker of small engines in the world.
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:28 PM   #8
Brian Boyer
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Default Re: I'm building a 420 for marine use

I'm admittedly new to the big blocks but i'm thinking i'll be spinning mine around 4,500 for extended periods.

I'm still trying to filter the internet for whether i do, or do not need to replace the rod to do so,.. 4,500 doesnt sound like much but then again it is merely a generator engine.. (Basically)

If i'm honest i cant imagine me cracking the case for governor removal and not taking the opportunity to replace the stock cam& springs while i'm right there already.

Keep in mind (in theory) over revving is very simply resolved by a cheap higher pitch prop, so thats not as much an issue as a cart minded guy might typically think of..

(Mud motor forums no help/ they are over-run with knuckleheads that overpaid for an over engineered $6,500 Gator Tail,.. My motor will be $900 built with stock engine.. So theirs MUST be better and the conversation is wasted)
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:35 PM   #9
Brian Boyer
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Default Re: I'm building a 420 for marine use

I'm VERY early in,.. But my ideas are as follows:

Carb need re-jetted (not running K&N, just removing air cleaner outer cover)

Mild Cam from NR Racing

Head milled only,.. (Researching how much removed) I read online NAPA can do head milling, checking into it..

Better pushrods

HD springs

Build your own exhaust kit off NR Racing,.. Not happy with any of the existing solutions, need free flow but would like some muffling~ on the fence/ may crack stock muffler open and open it up a little better& remove spark arrestor etc..


Open to any and all input,.. Thanks
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Old 11-29-2015, 02:50 PM   #10
raydhd
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Default Re: I'm building a 420 for marine use

The vegascarts torque cam is only $49. 10% off of that if you order before monday evening.
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