Buy a used Honda gx390 or buy a newer clone

BLACK DEATH

Well I have a chance to buy a used running Honda gx390 for $120 or...
Buy the hf 13 hp for $325 with tax when I find a coupon.
Or $400 for the Carroll stream 16 hp engine, is this really a 16hp engine?

Now the real question I want to know is, stock to stock on the engines listed above can you tell a difference in hp and torque?
I know the VC clone is a big difference but at this time I think a stock engine will do for what we need in one of these carts. I don’t need top speed. We want lower end grunt for now.
I know the mph will be the same with the rpms being the same.

BGW

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dundeebarnbuggy

It would be the genny Honda for me, even if I had to freshen it up. Rebuildable, and will go for thousands of hrs with regular maintenance.

sho305

Amazon has the lifan for 299 right now, sometimes home depot has them on sale for around 260 usually in the spring.

IMO the 420 does have more torque than the 390, with no governor it revs about 500 rpm less though. This is likely because the engines are the same but for bore/stroke changes, and more cubes same engine always moves the torque down and more of it. I have a stock carol stream 420 which had a lifan sticker on it, and a lifan 420 from HD that I built up. From what I have seen most clones are pretty good now. The cheapest one is the ebay powerland usually but do not see any on there now. I think the lifan is one of the best ones for quality, better if you plan to mod it later. The preditor is ok lot of people use them but some have a hemi head that is different some mods do not work with it. I think all are similar power far as I know, or similar enough you can't tell. The VC460 will have more power it has a cam in it, and a rod, and more HD with no governor. Its worth it if you want speed and power. What one you want depends on your budget and needs.

All that said the 420 stock is pretty good on torque, way better than stock engines in carts. I don't think my 420 with the VC cam and rod is way better but has lot more power over 4K the stock clones do not have. I set my primary to shift higher rpm with it and it does now pull harder for sure. The stock 420 has G9 rebuilt clutches on it and works like a charm, lots of power, with 22 tires it pulls hard to about 25mph then it lets off to max of 31 (with no governors). But if you got $20 set of HD springs, timing key, maybe the new cheap shaft rockers from Vegas, the stock valve stem cap and retainer and seat for the other valve, then tried to cut the head .050 and little porting to clean it up if you can find it cheaply, you would have a nice engine for cheap. It should hit close to 5K on a straight if you press it hard and run well as stock at low speeds. Jet the carb richer and put a 1" exhaust header to a muffler that flows, you will be good. Only issue is the lifan now comes with UT2 so it has a 4K rev limit, and also advances the timing for you. NR racing has a $70 coil with no limit. Have not seen UT2 on predators yet, its the new electronic coil and flywheel is different also.

Before I put the VC cam and rod in the lifan had the head ported and cut .050, timing key, 1.3 ratio rockers, jetted stock carb then a larger CV carb, 1" header into car muffler, etc. It ran 38 mph gps on 22s, ran about same as stock clone at low speeds best I could tell, and indeed still had the stock cam in it all block parts were stock except governor removal. The 1.3 rockers seem to help at higher rpm. They may require larger pushrods depending on how wimpy your stock ones are, in the lifan I did not put them in until I later put the big cam in. Just saying that without touching the block it ran pretty good, only thing that cost me much was (hired out) porting and cut the head which I planned to need later anyway that was over 100 bucks but it was a professional place that does do lawn engines also. I was too busy and needed it done fast.

dundeebarnbuggy

I enjoy reading your mods. Leads me to a question. If your putting a 20hp or so engine [stock] to get a little more torque, I get it, makes sense. But if you after "go gonzo" power, why dick around with modding a vangard, honda, china motor that was never designed to rev or make big power, when you can put in a sled motor that will make 20-90 hp right out of the box? Need revs, the newer ones will turn 8-9 grand for hours. Now, I know you boys south of the snowbelt have less availability but they are out there.

raydhd

A simple answer would be a new VC 460 is 25+ hp, near 6k rpms and is BRAND NEW for $600 delivered to your door.P.S My other cart has sled engine.A new sled engine would not be cheap.

dundeebarnbuggy

Gotcha. I wasn't talking new, but good [usually out of a wreck].

raydhd

Second issue would be getting the sled engine fairly quiet. For a sled engine my 440 is sort of quiet but 2-3 times louder than my VC 460. Plus many of the later units are liquid cooled and more than 2 cylinders. BUT don't get me wrong Suzi is lots of fun. Let us not forget the carts here with bike and atv drive train that are real power houses. BUT require a lot more fab work than clone or vanguard swaps that have install kits making it an easy bolt in.

dundeebarnbuggy

Yeah, Liquid cooled with the rad/fan up front, perfect setup. Quiet,,, eh,, look at it this way, How many Harley's are quiet? The speed the cart is capable of, you will be way out of earshot by the time the people are yelling at you!

BLACK DEATH

So let’s say I get the gx390 for $120.
Put better valve springs, reject carb, free flowing exhaust and air filter and maybe timing.
Would there be a difference you could feel?
Would it be able to rev to 5000 safely for a long period?
Per the calculator it says 5000 rpm will hit 30 mph

HBR

Of the 3 you listed, I would go with the Honda. Due to noise, I have switched from a 390 Lifan to GX390. It doesnt sound like noise is a concern for you, but the Honda is substantially quieter than the Lifan. It also runs cleaner.