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Old 08-28-2019, 01:20 PM   #1
welderboy
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Default Reliable Power

Sorry in advance for the long winded post.

This post is not a rant or review of the products mentioned. I am very hard on my 94 Club car DS (off roading etc.). I am simply looking for advice on a path forward to getting a reliable cart.

History:
- Started the mod process with the predator 420 swap all home fabricated. ( starter generator mounted to the gas tank mount of the motor. Constant failures related to the starter generator mounts breaking, the castings on the motor breaking.

-"Upgraded" to the VC 460 complete kit when it became available. Used there starter generator bracket that mounts to the back of the motor. the bracket constantly, cracked, broke, bent, etc. After adding 10 pounds of extra steel and weld to the bracket gave up on it.

- VC came out with the starter generator mount that sets on top of the motor. I promptly bought it and drilled and tapped the mounting points on top of the motor and got it set up. This brings us to current time. It has started to fail (the drop down arm (tensioner) stripped the bolt hole on the back of the motor it mounts to. I rethreaded and placed a larger bolt in it and now the bolt is broke off in the block. This engine runs great, but pull starting a pedal start cart is tricky especially after a few

The starter generator is a very heavy object to have hanging off the back of a engine that vibrates as much as these large single cylinders do. I have now came to the realization I can not have a reliable cart and use it the way I do and retain the stock starter generator.

All below options I would l leave the governor on. The cart has 25" tires so speed is not an issue.

Options considering:
- add a starter I have setting on the retired Predator engine to the VC. Which I am unsure as to if it will work since the VC 460 did not come with electric start.
- VC 625 key start. I would imagine since I have the VC kit this should be a drop in option with keyed start.
-Predator V-twin swap. V-twins are cool!
- Lifan engine with the 18 amp charging circuit. This is the option I am leaning towards since it should be a direct swap minus some wiring.
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Old 08-28-2019, 06:53 PM   #2
raydhd
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Default Re: Reliable Power

Another option. Read Shepard,s sticky above. He uses a parted alternator and uses a predator starter on a pretty built VC 460. Maybe he will chime in with more advice.
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Old 08-29-2019, 12:59 AM   #3
Shepard
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Default Re: Reliable Power

Welderboy - if you have a 460 already installed - you have the best engine possible - 10 bolt block with a torque cam. Please read the sticky above "parts list for a 18 amp alternator" -- it will be cheaper then replacing the engine with another Predator or Lifan engine. All the parts are Genuine Honda and best grade parts. This is a newer rectifier that's cheaper and for me so far works great.
Any big block starter will bolt up to a 460, buy a good grade starter. The bottom address is for the proper choke assembly for the carb that came with the 460.


https://www.bmikarts.com/Rectifier-R...80_p_7028.html

http://www.boats.net/parts/detail/ho...0-ZE2-812.html
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Old 08-29-2019, 07:05 AM   #4
slonomo
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Default Re: Reliable Power

I agree. The VC460 with a torque cam will be a great powerplant. I do agree with your frustration with the lack of a charging system, one of the reasons I upgraded as well. I also do a lot of off road driving and used a 460 for years. I too had issues with the starter/gen. I considered a Mahindra tractor alternator and belt install but didn't like the added width the pulley created in my engine compartment. However, Ray and Shepard are right, the alternator setup will be worlds better than the starter/gen. and the VC460 is a proven powerplant.

Now, if you have decided you want to upgrade, from your choices I'd go with the HF Twin. The reason is the smoothness of the engine, very little vibration, and in stock form with the governor the torque will be much greater than the VC460 you have now. It does have it's own charging system. And....parts are starting to be available to modify it if you wish. The down side is that it's a HF china engine and reliability is not proven yet, but I've heard good things if you don't over rev it. You should get 3800 rpm and 25-30 mph with 22-23" tires, without sacrificing any torque. I've never modified one of these and I'd recommend to keep it stock for reliability.

The VC 625 I'm sure is a great engine, and it's purpose built for the golf cart market. It's just too new for me to comment on, and I've never used one. It seems like a great powerplant with tons of torque, and it has a pressurized oiling system to boot so it should last a long time.
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Old 08-29-2019, 11:28 AM   #5
Shepard
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Default Re: Reliable Power

Slo - What your taking is all well and good but may be cost prohibitive compared to the cost of an alternator. I'm going to put up some new part numbers to go to a better system. UT2 uses a digital ignition that is more like a car. It starts at about 10 degrees BTDC and advances to 25 degrees by 1800 rpm. Starts easier and can be made to increase power.
dollars
UT2 cost about 380-390 dollars
UT1 cost about 300-320 dollars
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Old 08-29-2019, 01:05 PM   #6
welderboy
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Default Re: Reliable Power

Thank you for the replies!

What about my 2 year old VC 460 makes it worth putting the money/work into a better option than a new Lifan with the 18 amp charging circuit? It appears to me the cost of the materials for the 460 is equal to the cost of the new Lifan (half the cost of the 670v-twin). I am guessing there must be a substantial power gain with the VC 460 over the Lifan. If that is the case, could I not simply swap the head from the VC460 I currently have to the Lifan and gain a bit of boost in the power department?

Regarding the Predator 670 I understand from my research it only has a 9 amp charging circuit. In y'alls opinion will that be enough to keep the battery topped off (the cart has led lighting only) no other electronics. I could always add a alternator since I have the starter pulley from the VC kit, but I am really trying to simplify motor compartment and am simply tired of the dang thing always needing worked on.

This is going to be winter project for me since I have given up and brought my SXS to the lake to finish the season out with. While cost is a factor, my main goal is to have something with "stock" like reliability. In saying this I do understand you can only pick two (Cheapness, reliability and speed). I am willing to negotiate on the speed. FYI: I have never removed the governor on my current VC460 and can hit speed of 33 mph. Which Too fast imho in cart with 8" lift and 25" tires.
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Old 08-29-2019, 01:38 PM   #7
welderboy
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Default Re: Reliable Power

I just noticed on homedepo site they have a lifan 22hp with 18 amp charging system. The price is not that much higher than the HF engine. Would this be a possible swap alternative? I have not seen much on here with regards to this engine.
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Old 08-29-2019, 01:40 PM   #8
Shepard
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Default Re: Reliable Power

Swapping the head to a Lifan won't do much to increase power, in reality you'll lose power. The VC460 with a torque cam or a Lifan 420 with a stock cam.
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Old 08-29-2019, 01:42 PM   #9
welderboy
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Default Re: Reliable Power

Had a duh moment.... forgot these engines are overhead valve not cam....
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Old 08-29-2019, 03:09 PM   #10
slonomo
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Default Re: Reliable Power

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepard View Post
Slo - What your taking is all well and good but may be cost prohibitive compared to the cost of an alternator. I'm going to put up some new part numbers to go to a better system. UT2 uses a digital ignition that is more like a car. It starts at about 10 degrees BTDC and advances to 25 degrees by 1800 rpm. Starts easier and can be made to increase power.
dollars
UT2 cost about 380-390 dollars
UT1 cost about 300-320 dollars
Shepard, just commenting on his list not mine. He asked for advice. I like to give advice from all angles, not just from a biased point of view. Educate then let them make the decision, I'm not trying to sway anyone.
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