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Unread 12-10-2014, 09:37 AM   #81
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Default Re: 48-Volt Battery Maintainer

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Originally Posted by passthru View Post
So would you gain even more by having eight 6 volt batteries?
Maybe.

If you look at the list I posted, you will notice the are some premium grade 8V batteries the have higher AH capacities than economy grade 6V batteries. Therefore, a 6 x 8V pack of premium batteries could have more range and lifespan than 8 x 6V pack of economy batteries.

The thing to remember is that it is the AH of the cells that counts, not the voltage of the box they are grouped in. It takes twenty-four 2V cells to make a 48V pack and, in general terms, it is the volume of the electrolyte, acid concentration (Specific Gravity) of the electrolyte and total area of the lead & lead dioxide plates that is exposed to the electrolyte, that determine the storage capacity of the cell.

Whether they are 6V, 8V or 12V, cart batteries are roughly the same size, but higher voltage batteries have more 2V cells, so the higher the battery's voltage, the smaller the physical size of the cells, so they tend to have a smaller volume of electrolyte and fewer square inches of exposed plate surface, therefore fewer Amp-Hours.

The 2V cells in an 8V battery are about 3/4 the size of 2V cells in a 6V battery.
The 2V cells in a 12V battery are about 2/3 the size of the 2V cells in an 8V battery and about 1/2 the size of the 2V cells in a 6V battery.
The maximum AH capacity has the same ratios as the cell size, but manufactures make different grades of batteries and not all grades fully utilize the cell space available, so there is some overlap between the AH of batteries of different voltages.

Plus there are other things to take into consideration. IE: Fitting eight 6V batteries in a cart and the higher the AH, the higher the weight and the higher the weight, the lower performance. Also, cost is a factor since eight batteries typically cost more than six batteries.

My goal was range rather than speed or torque or battery lifespan and I wanted to keep everything under the seat with minimal effort. (I'm basically lazy, so I didn't want to relocate the controller. )

I went with seven, 245AH, 6V batteries to get the range I wanted and ended up with more speed & torque than I actually need and the jury is still out on the lifespan, but I'm pretty sure it be more than adequate as well.
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Unread 12-10-2014, 09:54 AM   #82
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Default Re: 48-Volt Battery Maintainer

That's good info, thanx.
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Unread 12-10-2014, 03:23 PM   #83
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Default Re: 48-Volt Battery Maintainer

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Sunking---I do have a charger that has a float charger built in. The "factory"charger holds my pack at 52 volts. The Save-A-Battery unit keeps the pack at 54.5 volts.
54.5 is an Equalize Charge Voltage which is used to Equalize specific gravity of the electrolyte and dissolve soft lead sulfate crystals that you calling de-sulfate. Pulse charging has nothing to do with it and no battery manufacture recommends using them. Its a marketing gimmick. Any good 3 or 4 stage battery charger has an EQ stage.

The danger, well problem is anything over 52 volts is an over charge condition. EQ or 54 volts is a controlled over charge which is required once in a while on FLA batteries to correct what was stated above. But two bad things happen with any over charge.

1. You gas the batteries excessively which means heavy water use. That is OK if you keep the plates covered with water by adding more distilled water. Real bad if you do not.

2. This is the killer. Over Voltage or over charge causes Plate Corrosion and the damage is permanent. The plate material ends up flaking off settling in the bottom of the battery jar or between the plates possible shorting out a cell. Neither are good and significantly shorten battery life. It will give the battery added capacity as you say, but at a cost of battery life and/or early failure.

Read your Trojan Battery Manual (page 16) or any battery manual and they will tell you the same thing. You only apply EQ as/when needed.

For more information on EQ Click Here and Here

Like you I don't care what you do with your batteries, its your money. But others might care about their money/batteries to make an informed purchase decision.
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Unread 12-10-2014, 03:54 PM   #84
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Default Re: 48-Volt Battery Maintainer

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Originally Posted by sunking View Post
54.5 is an Equalize Charge Voltage which is used to Equalize specific gravity of the electrolyte and dissolve soft lead sulfate crystals that you calling de-sulfate. Pulse charging has nothing to do with it and no battery manufacture recommends using them. Its a marketing gimmick. Any good 3 or 4 stage battery charger has an EQ stage.

The danger, well problem is anything over 52 volts is an over charge condition. EQ or 54 volts is a controlled over charge which is required once in a while on FLA batteries to correct what was stated above. But two bad things happen with any over charge.

1. You gas the batteries excessively which means heavy water use. That is OK if you keep the plates covered with water by adding more distilled water. Real bad if you do not.

2. This is the killer. Over Voltage or over charge causes Plate Corrosion and the damage is permanent. The plate material ends up flaking off settling in the bottom of the battery jar or between the plates possible shorting out a cell. Neither are good and significantly shorten battery life. It will give the battery added capacity as you say, but at a cost of battery life and/or early failure.

Read your Trojan Battery Manual (page 16) or any battery manual and they will tell you the same thing. You only apply EQ as/when needed.

For more information on EQ Click Here and Here

Like you I don't care what you do with your batteries, its your money. But others might care about their money/batteries to make an informed purchase decision.
In the Trojan manual you referred to (which I have read many times) on page 13 there is a table that gives EQ voltage for an 8 volt battery. It says 10.4 volts X 6 = 62.4 volts for a 48 volt pack NOT 54 volts. I bought this cart in June of this year along with this charger. I have not had to add water one time! I have talked to the engineers at Granite Digital about overcharging and they have assured me that it cannot happen. No offense but with my and my friends experience with the product, I tend to put more faith in Granite Digital's word than in a person I have no knowledge of. Helping someone "make an informed purchase decision" is one thing. Scaring them without firsthand experience with a product is another----
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Unread 12-10-2014, 05:24 PM   #85
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Default Re: 48-Volt Battery Maintainer

Scott---sorry for hijacking your thread. I was just sharing my research and experience with a particular brand of maintainer. I am not trying to talk anyone into a purchase. I have mine--love it--end of story.
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Unread 12-10-2014, 05:44 PM   #86
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Default Re: 48-Volt Battery Maintainer

No worries it is good information. :)
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Unread 12-11-2014, 07:37 AM   #87
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Default Re: 48-Volt Battery Maintainer

I noticed that Trojan makes a 6v T-145 battery 260Ah @ 20 hr rate
The 8v Batteries Ranger are 204h @20 hr rate the T-875 is only 170Ah Travler long life are 170Ah
The 12v's are at 150 Ah for almost all of them That is a big difference.

According to that, I think the 6v batteries is still a large margin ahead of the rest. As far as run time. This makes me still want to consider 8 6v batteries but the cost may not be worth it, I guess $200 more is it going to be that much better?
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Unread 12-11-2014, 08:39 AM   #88
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Default Re: 48-Volt Battery Maintainer

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Originally Posted by scooterman View Post
I noticed that Trojan makes a 6v T-145 battery 260Ah @ 20 hr rate
The 8v Batteries Ranger are 204h @20 hr rate the T-875 is only 170Ah Travler long life are 170Ah
The 12v's are at 150 Ah for almost all of them That is a big difference.

According to that, I think the 6v batteries is still a large margin ahead of the rest. As far as run time. This makes me still want to consider 8 6v batteries but the cost may not be worth it, I guess $200 more is it going to be that much better?
There is also the T-890 (190AH) to consider.

You can make a "Best Bang for the Buck" guesstimate by dividing the total installed price by the estimated lifespan.
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Unread 12-11-2014, 08:44 AM   #89
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Default Re: 48-Volt Battery Maintainer

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There is also the T-890 (190AH) to consider.

You can make a "Best Bang for the Buck" guesstimate by dividing the total installed price by the estimated lifespan.
That is what I'll have to do, the area I use it is gravel, very hilly so when we use it I need all the power I can muster LOL.
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Unread 12-11-2014, 10:05 AM   #90
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Default Re: 48-Volt Battery Maintainer

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That is what I'll have to do, the area I use it is gravel, very hilly so when we use it I need all the power I can muster LOL.
I can empathize with you about the very hilly terrain.

Because there isn't any level ground to speak of in my neck of the woods, I don't go places where I need a lot of axle clearance and wasn't interested in a lot of speed, I decided to stay about stock height when I replaced my tires. Carlisle's website states the mounted height of the tires I bought was 18.4", which was only an inch taller than the 17.4" stock tires on the cart, so the torque loss would only be about 5% and I thought that to be acceptable.

The tires turned out to be only 17" tall, so I actually gain a little torque when I installed them.

There are a few places I cannot take my cart, but not many because the hill is too steep or to far away from the house.
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