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Unread 01-29-2015, 01:30 PM   #1
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Default Jakes and Sunco Hydraulics Brakes - The merging of two systems

So I was bored and decided to swap my Club Car over to full hydraulic brakes, removing the mechanical rear Ausco's.

I got a Jake's Kit for Christmas and horse traded other golf cart parts for most of Sunoco's kit for the rear. The only thing I needed to source was a master cylinder for Sunco's kit.

So some might ask why not use a single master cylinder instead of 2. That answer is simple... $$ why spend more money when I don't have to.

I bought a generic master cylinder from ebay, which just happens to be the same model that Sunoco used.

I installed the Jake's kit first and got the actuator bracket in place. I next modified the other actuator bracket with my grinder to make it fit.

I very simple modified the bracket for the ebay master cylinder with my grinder and I adjusted how much each bracket applied pressure on the master cylinders.

I hear that some people have problems with Sunoco's kit, and my response to that is, that it is your problem, not Sunoco's kit, as your not getting them bled.

I had to bleed Jake's kit as well as Sunoco's no differently. Point blank you just can't bleed these kits with out a MittyVac pump. I started on one side, switched to the other, switched back, and switch again, drawing fluid out of each side out of each system.

Let me tell you, this thing stops like a bad ***... To prove everything was rock solid, while on jack stands I mounted the tires and used my torque wrench to tighten each lug nut to 75 lbs. Both sets hold so well that I could apply all the torque in the world with out the wheels moving.

If you are having problems with Sunoco's brakes, get a MittyVac vacuum pump and move on.
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Unread 01-29-2015, 01:40 PM   #2
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Default Re: Jakes and Sunco Hydraulics Brakes - The merging of two systems

More of the master cyclinders
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Unread 02-10-2015, 04:14 PM   #3
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Talking Re: Jakes and Sunco Hydraulics Brakes - The merging of two systems

I got the brakes to finally hold but once I put my wheels and tires on it acts as though I have no brakes. With out them installed I can't move them. I have 27" tall tires on it.
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Unread 02-10-2015, 05:25 PM   #4
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Default Re: Jakes and Sunco Hydraulics Brakes - The merging of two systems

Andy, Are you referring to the Sunocos on the rear? I saw how you had several problems in another thread. How did you bleed them? And also, further define what it feels with the tires and wheels on.

I put a of WheelsCA on the rear of a Club Car with a backseat, front grill guard, and 25" tires on it and while they stop the cart, there is no way the lock up or stop it instantly.

As you read my thread... You notice how I said that with the wheels and tires off the the ground and the e-brake set, I could use my torque wrench and lock the tires down to 65-75lbs with out the brake slipping. Can you do that?
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Unread 02-10-2015, 10:22 PM   #5
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Default Re: Jakes and Sunco Hydraulics Brakes - The merging of two systems

Sunoco's master cylinder in my opinion does not have a large enough bore and stroke to adequately clamp the brakes ... And yes we bled the brakes and had hard pedal (used vac. Pump ) a lot of guys had issues , I used a different style of cylinder ..( Unless he is now using a different cylinder then when they first came out would not recommend them )
Good idea ... Just insufficient master cylinder
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Unread 02-11-2015, 10:17 AM   #6
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Default Re: Jakes and Sunco Hydraulics Brakes - The merging of two systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Great white north View Post
Sunoco's master cylinder in my opinion does not have a large enough bore and stroke to adequately clamp the brakes ... And yes we bled the brakes and had hard pedal (used vac. Pump ) a lot of guys had issues , I used a different style of cylinder ..( Unless he is now using a different cylinder then when they first came out would not recommend them )
Good idea ... Just insufficient master cylinder
Possibly, but I believe I used the same master cylinder as he did. I would still wager to say most people are not getting them bled correctly to account for how many have had problems. And the only way to know for sure is if you had the same person use multiple MC of the same brand to ensure they were all bled identically, only then could you really determine if it was a MC issue or a bleeding process. There are just too many variables on the bleeding processes to narrow it down and that is why I wager most are going to be related to bleeding.

Also, I do not believe the cylinder he used has any smaller of a bore than the master cylinder used by Jakes and Wheelsca (Jakes and Wheelsca use the same MC and they are made by Wilwood. As the thread indicates, I have Jakes on the front, but on my EZGO I have a WheelsCA kit and so have direct, immediate comparison).

All I know is I went to ebay, found a master cylinder for $30 and made it work without issue by following the bleeding procedure I have always used with my Mittyvac pump (I do not pump the pedal and can go into how I do it if needed).

As I mentioned, I was able to set the ebrake and use a torque wrenc at 75lbs per lug nut and the brakes held tight not budging and when I drive the cart at speed in reverse and mash the brakes putting 70% of the stopping on power on the Sunoco/Ausco hyrdraulics, the cart squats hard and stops fast.

For reference here is a link to the master cylinder I used with the Ausco calipers:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/390681020775...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT
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Unread 02-11-2015, 10:45 AM   #7
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Default Re: Jakes and Sunco Hydraulics Brakes - The merging of two systems

I haven't changed master cylinders. I use that same one cheapjeep, I just buy them directly from the manufacturer. I have personally installed them on probably 5 or 6 carts and haven't had any issues.

As to why some people can get them to work and some cant, I cant say why for sure. I do personally believe it to be a bleeding issue.

I think my kit is about half the cost as others and uses nice MADE IN USA Ausco calipers and rotors. I also make my own hoses.
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Unread 02-11-2015, 11:26 PM   #8
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Default Re: Jakes and Sunco Hydraulics Brakes - The merging of two systems

Sunoco you used a 1/2 inch bore and 9/16 stroke on the cylinder you sent me
And when my cart guy asked you the specifics on your cylinder .... You did not even know about stroke and bore specs... .. What about all the threads of people having problems with your system ???? ... Come on it's not all about the bleeding ... There is a issue ... Design flaw ... Hello ??? I used a well wood cylinder 5/8 bore and 1.12 stroke and that did the trick
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Unread 02-12-2015, 07:57 AM   #9
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Default Re: Jakes and Sunco Hydraulics Brakes - The merging of two systems

For what it's worth... It's Wilwood (not well wood). The Master Cylinder used by WheelsCA and Jake's has a 5/8" bore.
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Unread 02-13-2015, 01:36 AM   #10
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Default Re: Jakes and Sunco Hydraulics Brakes - The merging of two systems

For what it's worth ,, was talking about the master cylinder Sunoco sent me , it was a 1/2 inch bore ..the picture of cylinder you have posted is not the same cylinder Sunoco used when he first started selling them , if he is now using 5/8 bore then that is a different story .. Duh
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