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Unread 08-26-2015, 10:10 PM   #31
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Default Re: Dual headlights for a precedent?

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Originally Posted by SilverPhantom View Post
JJ,

I would like to add a cyclops light onto my cart in addition to the phantom lights. However, I would prefer they all be wired together and all come on/off with the light switch that I have. Do you think that would be possible without drawing too much on the batteries? If so, would it need any additional converters or etc? Also, any wiring ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

SP
Reducers/Inverters are a hotly contested discussion that vary based on who you ask. I don't use them. If you do the basic math, as I have seen in a couple other posts on here over time, even if a single battery had a shortened lifespan the cost/benefit ratio with a reducer that will likely not last more than 4-5 years before replacement it works out more in your favor monetarily to just install it without the reducer. This is assuming you are just using lights, not some huge draw.

As to the rules, that's odd they require two lights. Even Florida, who is really anal about lights etc, isn't that bad. Perhaps a couple 4 inch LED lights mounted on the windshield uprights would pass for the rules? I'd link it for you, but it seems that would violate the rules
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Unread 08-27-2015, 09:38 AM   #32
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Default Re: Dual headlights for a precedent?

The Converter vs No Converter debate comes up every once in a while, so let me make the case for using a Converter.

Unless You are using an expensive bank charger ( 6 x 8v outputs), a 48v charger only charges the "pack" not individual batteries.

If the charger is set to switch from Bulk mode to Absorption mode at let's say 57v, it does not know if that happened when each battery was at 9.5v (well balanced pack), or if 4 batteries were at 10v and 2 batteries were at 8.5v.

The deep cycle battery used in Golf Carts requires a high current charge in order to cause the chemical reaction deep into the thick plates. A battery that has been discharged during regular use cannot be charged with a trickle charger no matter how long You leave the charger on (according to DPI site).

So after one single uneven discharge event, those batteries will not be fully charged and the other ones will be over charged.

Those batteries used for accessories will now be discharged more during regular use since they already started at a lower SOC, even if You don't use any accessories again, so the cycle created by over discharging some batteries more than others is a perpetual problem, not just a single event.

The Amp Hour capacity of a pack of batteries in series is controlled by the lowest capacity amp hour, so Your entire pack Amp Hour (run time) is reduced.

That is also a "static" scenario, meaning the cart is not moving. As You may know, the energy that can be removed from a battery is not constant, it depends on the rate at which You are removing the energy (Peukert Law).

For example, a Trojan 875 (8v battery) is rated at 170AH, but that does not mean You can get 170amps for 1 hour, You will not even get half of that, If you use 56Amps they only last 117 minutes until totally empty.

The Peukert law is exponential, so if You are using 20 additional amps off 2 batteries while cruising, the amount of energy available will be a lot less than if the 20 amps were being removed while the cart is not moving.

We have also come a long way in engineering and manufacturing tolerances and efficiencies, so safety margins on electronic equipment is not as wide as they used to be, mainly for cost reduction reasons.

Running devices that were engineered to operate on a typical 12v automobile system, will cause stress when operated at 16v, it will be even worse right after a charge when the batteries will be 9v or more for a while.

This can be particularly bad for Led replacement lights as the most common failure for Leds is "Junction Stress" caused by the substrate re-flowing and expanding under the extra heat and damaging the semiconductor junction.

It will also be hard to replace single bad batteries later on as the new battery will overcharge and the old ones will now receive an incomplete charge.

So my vote is to install a good quality DC Converter, they are not all created equal, but if You choose one with at least 20amps output, chances are You will get one that is designed to be more efficient (80%+).
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Unread 08-27-2015, 03:25 PM   #33
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Default Re: Dual headlights for a precedent?

Interesting theory, but in testing my batteries to the thousandth shows otherwise. My 6x8 precedent with 1 year old US Batteries all charge and stay at about 8.4 full. The full metered charge is usually 8.455 at rest. Each is the same within .002V of each other, and I'm running my lights on 16 volts without ever burning a bulb and no melted lenses or wires. In theory your post makes sense, but in practice my data shows its overthought. Nice write up though.
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Unread 08-27-2015, 04:05 PM   #34
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Default Re: Dual headlights for a precedent?

My 2010 Precedent with 3 year old batteries eventually blew out both headlamp bulbs when connected to 16 volts. I installed a converter and have had no further issues.
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Unread 08-27-2015, 06:47 PM   #35
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Default Re: Dual headlights for a precedent?

You have some pretty special batteries as just normal differences in regular self-discharge characteristics is enough to put the pack out of balance.

I unfortunately have experienced what tapping 2 batteries to run regular golf course equipment will do to a pack, I even built some passive voltage by-pass devices to try to get that old pack back in balance.

I could not save that pack, but I am trying to keep my new one balanced by using the devices and equalizing once a quarter as it allows additional current to be by-passed around the higher voltage batteries.

Actually just last month Linear Technologies came up with the industry first Lead Acid active balancing device, pretty interesting concept of using an aux battery to either discharge or up-charge each battery in succession until the pack is in balance.

Here is the link if anyone is interested in that kind of technology stuff, as it is typical of engineers, the subject can be dry and dull if you are not interested.

http://www.digikey.com/videos/en/v/L...tc3305&p=1&s=-
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Unread 08-27-2015, 07:31 PM   #36
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Default Re: Dual headlights for a precedent?

Wow that seems very feasible in our carts, just need to accommodate the 6 8v batteries and get an additional battery which you could use as a supply for aux equipment while keeping you pack actively balanced. Now that is cool!
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Unread 08-28-2015, 12:36 PM   #37
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Default Re: Dual headlights for a precedent?

If anyone is interested, David Hicks at Revolution Golf Cars was able to locate and provide me with the "plug and play" wiring harness needed to plug in a cyclops headlight and the phantom body lights described above. I don't have the part number yet because I ordered the harness directly thought DH. If it's on the shipping form when I receive it, I'll provide it. Otherwise, DH can hook you up!!
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Unread 08-28-2015, 02:07 PM   #38
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Default Re: Dual headlights for a precedent?

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Originally Posted by SilverPhantom View Post
If anyone is interested, David Hicks at Revolution Golf Cars was able to locate and provide me with the "plug and play" wiring harness needed to plug in a cyclops headlight and the phantom body lights described above. I don't have the part number yet because I ordered the harness directly thought DH. If it's on the shipping form when I receive it, I'll provide it. Otherwise, DH can hook you up!!
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Unread 08-28-2015, 05:53 PM   #39
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Default Re: Dual headlights for a precedent?

So Sergio, you piqued my interest in the topic with your write up. Having quite a few carts at my disposal to test, with various aged batteries and configurations, I went out with my voltmeter and set to field test the theory. I tested 7 carts....3 x 36v EZGO TXT and 4 x 48 Club Car. The 36v ezgo's were obviously all 6x6 setups. The club cars were 3 of the 6x8 and 1 of the 4x12 setups. The largest variance tested was .1V on carts that are not fully charged. The oldest setup, a 36V Ezgo with 3 year old Interstate batteries and headlights run off batteries 3 and 4 for 12v, showed a maximum variance of .04V (That's 4 hundredths of a volt for those not knowing electrical decimals) The largest variance was in a 6x8 Club Car Precedent and that was .1V (one tenth of a volt) on a pack that is 2 months old. The Precedent pack was fully charged. The Ezgo pack was not full, however it was at 37.6 Volts. Some of the other tested units were at about 80% charge. I'm not trying to prove or disprove anyone's theory here, just curious enough to do a field test and get some real data on the topic. Of the 7 tested, all had headlights run without a reducer, some also have USB and 12V ports. Some have turn signals/Brake lights as well. So with batteries up to 3 years old, in 6x6 6x8 and 4x12 configurations I found no evidence that using the lights without a reducer was causing any premature wear on the batteries. A larger sample may prove to show different numbers, however given the margin of error I don't for see any sizable difference in data. An Extech EX330 meter was used. The temperature was 81 degrees and the relative humidity was about 55%.

And for Laker Dave, my question would be which bulb are you running? There are several possibilities, with the higher wattage bulbs likely being the ones you had that were failing. The possible numbers are 880, 881, 885, and 889. Some of those are 27Watts, 35 watts, or 50 watts. A larger wattage bulb in a 16V based system will create more heat and be far more prone to failure....along with being much brighter. I run the 27watt version on 16V as I have now for 2 years and have never replaced a bulb.
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Unread 08-30-2015, 08:11 PM   #40
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Default Re: Dual headlights for a precedent?

You are correct; the bulbs that let go were 889 (I believe 27 Watts). I estimate I had less than 30 minutes run time on them.
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