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Unread 11-10-2015, 05:43 PM   #31
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Default Re: Cart Still Running Hot, Still need help, please

Post 28 is a very good post IMO.
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Unread 11-12-2015, 01:07 PM   #32
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Default Re: Cart Still Running Hot, Still need help, please

Since You said you wrote all of the gears teeth count, using this double reduction Graziano Transaxle as an example:

Number of teeth on Outer Intermediate Gear #19 / Number of teeth on Pinion Gear #17 = First Reduction

Number of teeth on Ring Gear #32 / Number of teeth on Inner Intermediate Gear #19 = Second Reduction

First Reduction x Second Reduction = Final Gear Ratio

Just curious, but can you verify if Your numbers produce the correct ratio?

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Unread 11-14-2015, 12:58 AM   #33
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Default Re: Cart Still Running Hot, Still need help, please

Ill throw in my .02 of a buck. I'm having the same issue. I have a '03 DS (pathway) which is supposed to have a 10.3:1 ratio as a stock configuration. I am able to read the motor RPM with a monitor and I got 4500 RPM. With 23" tires I was doing 30 MPH GPS. Using the speed calculator, it verifies 10.3:1 ratio. My motor was/is getting hot too. The "how hot is too hot" question drove me nuts because nobody was able to (or wanted to) answer it (to include the manufacturer of the motor). I recently had a long telephone conversation with an expert from a different motor manufacturer and was told that going above 200F is the threshold. He uses 190F as a reference for a buffer, but like someone else said in this thread, 180 CELCIUS is the thermal limit. I was told to keep the motor under 190F and it should be ok.

Just like you, 15 mins of driving yields about 120-130F. Keep on driving, and those temps just keep going up. For what its worth, when my first motor blew (I am on motor number 2) I was reading temps just about 200F. So the info I was told seems to hold merit - the first motor blew when it was running in the 200F range.

A little about my setup, I have a CC '03 pathway 48v IQ, Alltrax XCT-500-IQ, 2 AWG cables, 23" tires, 6 new(er) Trojan T-875's, Graziano rear at 10.3:1, and a jakes long travel lift kit. Brakes verified not dragging. 1 or two persons driving on flat asphalt. I use an IR thermometer to measure the temp of the can of the motor and I also use a 2 channel digital thermometer with thermocouples to monitor the heat of the cap and can while I drive. Alltrax has been very helpful in this matter. They have bent over backwards in support of their product. They have even gone so far as to supply a loaner DCX-500 controller to rule out the possibility that the problem was with the XCT controller. It has since been proven that there is no problem with the XCT.... So, a big thank you to Alltrax for supporting thier product.

So I'm in the same boat as you and I was told I have two paths to choose from..... Change the gear ratio in my rear and/or change the tire size -OR- monitor the temps and keep them below 190F. When I start carrying 4 people or towing, the new temperatures will dictate which way I go. As you know, a fellow member had a set of 12.44:1 gears for sale in the classifieds, but they seemed to be from a Kawasaki rear instead of a Graziano rear based upon his description (which way the bolts face indicating a Kawasaki). I sure could use a set of stock gears....

I plan to put smaller standard sized tires on the cart and see how much cooler the motor runs, but until I get a set of lower gears for a Graziano rear, I'll probably just limit the amount of driving I do with the cart. But for right now, I stop driving at 145F to keep the thermal stress to a minimum while I try to figure it out.

If you figure out this mystery please let us know. I, like you, are just going to have to experiment until it is solved. Thanks for your posts
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Unread 11-14-2015, 08:17 AM   #34
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Default Re: Cart Still Running Hot, Still need help, please

Tom was your first motor original? When I put a new motor from PQ I did all of the upgrades also, I don't have a temp reader but it gets hot enough to where I can't hold my hands on it. If it ever becomes an issue with the shunt motor then my guess switching to a series system may be the solution. I had the motor wound for torque so i assume it was heavier windings and built to handle a margin more heat than stock. Only time will tell. Now with my knowledge of gears high gears gets you lots of top end but slow on the low end. This will cause that motor to work extra hard from dead stop to a point where it gets moving good, the problem is of you want to drive at lower speeds it will shorten the life of the motor if it wasn't built for that. The day you upgraded the controlled and cables etc you allowed for the motor to run beyond design probably causing the heat issue. So as you stated you can change the gear ratio several ways like tire size or the gears or match the motor to the gears by design. The difficult problem is determining what combination is best for you depending on your needs.

That is my .02 LOL!
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Unread 11-14-2015, 08:31 AM   #35
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Default Re: Cart Still Running Hot, Still need help, please

(4) My cart still flies like the wind. iPhone app has it going 25-26 mph. This is with the controller turned down to about 450-500 amps and the acceleration turned all the way down.


This post is literally a red flag as is the calculated 4500 rpm. The cart either has a high speed motor or tall gears.

No stock series cart is going to make this kind of speed without one of the 2 options above.
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Unread 11-14-2015, 10:37 AM   #36
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Default Re: Cart Still Running Hot, Still need help, please

Sergio - I did not have those numbers. I don't have my notebook that I wrote everything down on but one of the gears had 70 teeth I believe. So I may not have that axle.

Scottyb

I don't know what to tell you. The motor is not stock. It's a plum quick bandit. The RPMs were calculated using the calculator on this website and other websites. If those calculators are wrong then I'm wrong.

Pq says 4500 rpms is fine for their motor. I am going to keep monitoring the heat and get back to y'all.

I am also going to look for some smaller tires.
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Unread 11-14-2015, 10:45 AM   #37
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Default Re: Cart Still Running Hot, Still need help, please

Quote:
The motor is not stock. It's a plum quick bandit.
The Plum Quick Bandit is a polished and painted up stock motor. It's good but it has its limitations.
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Unread 11-14-2015, 01:05 PM   #38
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Default Re: Cart Still Running Hot, Still need help, please

Understanding motor insulation classes and temperature ratings is simpler than you might think. Though we're focusing on standard AC induction motors, you can apply most of this information to DC motors. Let's begin by looking at motor temperature terms.

http://ecmweb.com/content/hot-issue-...rature-ratings
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Unread 11-14-2015, 01:20 PM   #39
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Default Re: Cart Still Running Hot, Still need help, please

Quote:
Originally Posted by scooterman View Post
Tom was your first motor original? When I put a new motor from PQ I did all of the upgrades also, I don't have a temp reader but it gets hot enough to where I can't hold my hands on it. If it ever becomes an issue with the shunt motor then my guess switching to a series system may be the solution. I had the motor wound for torque so i assume it was heavier windings and built to handle a margin more heat than stock. Only time will tell. Now with my knowledge of gears high gears gets you lots of top end but slow on the low end. This will cause that motor to work extra hard from dead stop to a point where it gets moving good, the problem is of you want to drive at lower speeds it will shorten the life of the motor if it wasn't built for that. The day you upgraded the controlled and cables etc you allowed for the motor to run beyond design probably causing the heat issue. So as you stated you can change the gear ratio several ways like tire size or the gears or match the motor to the gears by design. The difficult problem is determining what combination is best for you depending on your needs.

That is my .02 LOL!
No, this was not my original motor. It was a brand new motor that was supposed to be a torque motor that provided a 70% torque increase with a 500A controller. It was pointed out to me by a well respected member of this forum that a 10.3:1 gear with 23" tire size increases the drive ratio by almost 40%. I would have figured that a 70% increase in torque would have easily overcome that. Temporarily dropping down to stock 18" tires should result in much lower temps. If not, the problem lies somewhere else.

I don't wish to hijack this thread. I'm supplying information that I think is relevant to this issue and am working towards a resolution to a common problem.

Again, thanks to all for their input.
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Unread 12-14-2015, 06:01 PM   #40
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Default Re: Cart Still Running Hot, Still need help, please

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyb View Post
(4) My cart still flies like the wind. iPhone app has it going 25-26 mph. This is with the controller turned down to about 450-500 amps and the acceleration turned all the way down.


This post is literally a red flag as is the calculated 4500 rpm. The cart either has a high speed motor or tall gears.

No stock series cart is going to make this kind of speed without one of the 2 options above.
I'm not sure why this is so unbelievable, I sold a cart to a customer it's a 2008 TXT with an alltrax 400 amp controller 2 ga cables, 22 inch tires stock motor and rear gears (bought a truck load of these right off a golf course so I know they are standard carts ie. no high speed gears) and that thing will do 25-26 mph with no problems.
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