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Unread 12-15-2015, 04:47 PM   #31
Getting Wild
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Smile Re: Battery options

First let me say I get most of my data from the fellas who build electric cars with the leaf modules. Here is a post from their forum I found full of info.

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...-112330p6.html

Leaf operation range is 4.2 - 3.0 v/cell. So ending at 3.85 (54 volts for my pack) ensures I am a long way from 42 volts. My absolute low voltage is 50 volts. If I were ever to get close to that, I would tow it home.

I got my charger from Quickcharger.com. You can have them program the charger for a lithium battery and to shut off at any voltage you like.

I should also note that Sport Coupe on this forum did all the leg work here. Read his posts for more detail.

As to balance. My original intention was to bottom balance like Sport Coupe did. What I discovered is that as you are charging the modules and get near full charge, they accept less charge. So, when charging a pack, the cells with the lowest charge accept the most and the fullest accept the least. They essentially self, top balance. This observation of mine was also noted in the DIYelectriccar forum. I have pulled out my pack and checked individual cell voltages after 100 charge cycles and they are still perfectly balanced.
If this ever fails, I will buy a new set ($900 delivered for the last) and start over.

As to size of pack. If I were in Colorado where it might be cold and have more hills, I would go with the 120 ah, Florida and flat ground, 60 ah would be plenty unless you are doing alot of running around.

Last edited by Oneunder; 12-15-2015 at 04:50 PM.. Reason: more info
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Unread 12-15-2015, 05:17 PM   #32
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Default Re: Battery options

MCI.... Search this site for sportcoupe. He has built 2 carts with leaf cells. You can follow his thread, even has pictures
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Unread 12-15-2015, 06:21 PM   #33
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Default Re: Battery options

My choice would be 4 Trojan 1275 12 Volt or 6 Trojan 875 8 Volt I have gotten great service from both!
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Unread 12-15-2015, 07:00 PM   #34
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Default Re: Battery options

I to would go with the 9KwH storage capacity of T-875 Trojan batteries compared to the 3.36KwH of the 60ah LifePO4 battery. Beware of exaggerated claims of LifePO4 battery salespeople.
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Unread 12-15-2015, 07:23 PM   #35
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Default Re: Battery options

Quote:
Originally Posted by kendeiss View Post
My choice would be 4 Trojan 1275 12 Volt or 6 Trojan 875 8 Volt I have gotten great service from both!
Still looking at the leaf options, but i have budget for this project and the cost difference between lead and the leaf system will pay for all the other stuff- 12v converter, rear seat, new seat covers, new wheels and tires ( to fit a 6" lift kit i picked up for $100), as well as offset some the Florida registration fees to get this thing on the road leagally.

Probably going to go with the 6-8v conversion and either Trojan or Deka batteries-I can get them both for the same cost.

Still have not ruled out the leaf system yet, just hard to justify the $$$ difference.

Regsrdless going to go with an on board smart charger and get rid of the OBC (thanks for the help Sergio).
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Unread 12-16-2015, 02:03 AM   #36
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Default Re: Battery options

http://www.villages-news.com/golf-ca...arged-battery/

Interesting link above. 200ah lithium on battery golfcart goes over 100 miles on a singleim charge at 17mph average speed. It'll be more interesting if I can find a build.bha. I also interested in lithium ion conversion and will check out sportcoupes build. Thanks.
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Unread 12-16-2015, 09:22 AM   #37
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Default Re: Battery options

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjance View Post
I to would go with the 9KwH storage capacity of T-875 Trojan batteries compared to the 3.36KwH of the 60ah LifePO4 battery. Beware of exaggerated claims of LifePO4 battery salespeople.
You would not think comparing different battery chemistry specifications would be so difficult, but choosing the correct battery involves a lot of different variables.

First of all, when calculating KwH using a C20 or 20Hour rate, the final result needs to be given as a 20hour value as well.

You must have used a T-890 for your calculations as the T-875 is only 170AH.

So (170AH x 48v)/1000 = 8.16KwH, but that is based on a 20 hour rating.

The answer is really: 0.408KwH for 20 hours, good enough for playing music but You will not be running your cart.

Trojan also publishes the T-875 when discharged at 56amps will last 2 hours (117 minutes).

So in the surface it would appear the T-875 would run twice as long as a 60AH (that is a C1 rating or 60amps for 1 hour), but they also say that is until the volts per cell drop to 1.75v/cell or 7v for the battery.

You now have two issues, not only You killed the battery, 10%SOC=7.67v, but the battery was not delivering 8v in the second hour anyway.

So Yes, a 60AH lithium battery will likely give You a longer range than a pack of Trojan T-875, specially considering the weight reduction, and it will be able to do it many times more than the lead acid due to its capacity of sustaining a lower SOC.

Unfortunately there are other considerations, most lithium manufactures will recommend not exceeding 3x the C1 rating for more than 10 seconds.

For a 60AH battery, that would be 180amps for no more than 10 seconds.

So depending on your driving conditions, hills or pulling a trailer, that can be more of an issue than the range.

We have all seen what can happen to lithium batteries under stress as the news like to show hoover boards catching on fire during use.

As far as BMS, a lot of experts opinions are taken out of context, while a bad BMS is worse than no BMS, it really depends on the specific lithium chemistry as some are inherently more stables than others.

There are a lot of poorly designed BMS systems, as some of the manufactures build their products based solely on specs sheets and often using buggy software on their micro-controller driven solutions.

These products can directly, by malfunctioning, or indirectly, by not doing what they are supposed to do, cause more problems than if You were carefully monitoring the cells.

Some folks may have taken that to mean that BMS are not necessary, but think about this, car manufactures will often argue that installing a $5 device that can save lives is way too costly for them, but they all have expensive BMS systems on their electric vehicles.

I am glad lots of folks are installing lithium packs as it takes a lot of trial and error to develop reliable and safe products.
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Unread 12-16-2015, 09:38 AM   #38
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Default Re: Battery options

I have been debating this in my head for a while now and I think I am going to go for the 120AH Lithium setup. It is a bit of overkill for my needs but I see a couple advantages. Battery impedance is half (two sets in parallel) Range is way more than I need so I can be very conservative on charge and discharge voltages. The down side is the cost of double the batteries. That is what is keeping me thinking.
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Unread 12-16-2015, 09:48 AM   #39
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Default Re: Battery options

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio View Post

So Yes, a 60AH lithium battery will likely give You a longer range than a pack of Trojan T-875, specially considering the weight reduction, and it will be able to do it many times more than the lead acid due to its capacity of sustaining a lower SOC.
not to oversimplify this, but if that is the case - a 60AH lithium pack (like Leaf system) will have similar run times as a new Trojan 6-8v battery pack-then that helps with comparing apples to apples. I'd be going with a BMS to help protect things.

One other question- when I remove the OBC on the Precedent, do I bridge the white and red OR white and blue (mine is light blue coming from the plug) from the male end of the connector harness leaving the section that goes into the OBC untouched for complete removal?
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Unread 12-16-2015, 10:36 AM   #40
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Default Re: Battery options

I never heard of anyone adding an OBC back to a cart that previously had a smart charger, so I would just cut the wires and connect them togheter.

The best way is to connect the Blue with the White wires near the OBC plug. That way the controller only gets the +48v when the Tow/Run is on Run.
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