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Unread 05-25-2016, 10:58 PM   #1
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Default Electrical Motor Products, Inc- Custom Motors

I have been looking around at all the motor upgrade options for mt 2010 Club Car Precedent with the Alltrax XCT 500A contoller.
And I was led to this site http://empincbiz/ Apparently they build custom Golf cart motors that fit your specific needs. they start out by having you fill out a questionnaire that ask all kinds of questions about your cart and what you are wanting to achieve. They even go as far as getting a few location addresses or GPS locations from you to where you will be riding your cart most and they map out the terrain and get back to you with a one on one consultation about your custom motor build. Anyway I just filled out my questionnaire and will let you all know what I find out. Please let me know if any of you have had a motor build by them before and what your thoughts are .
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Unread 05-25-2016, 11:16 PM   #2
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Default Re: Electrical Motor Products, Inc- Custom Motors

Sounds good. I've seen that logo on several motors in the past and they seemed to perform well. The key here though is to make sure that they can provide you with the details you'll need to properly set up the field mapping in your alltrax to work with one of their motors.
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Unread 05-25-2016, 11:27 PM   #3
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Default Re: Electrical Motor Products, Inc- Custom Motors

Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeDawgZ71 View Post
Sounds good. I've seen that logo on several motors in the past and they seemed to perform well. The key here though is to make sure that they can provide you with the details you'll need to properly set up the field mapping in your alltrax to work with one of their motors.
Yes I agree. I contacted Alltrax today and they said they were a good company that made quality motors, so I will be sure to get a map made for the motor I go with between them an Alltrax I should be able to get a proper map created
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Unread 05-26-2016, 10:19 AM   #4
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Default Re: Electrical Motor Products, Inc- Custom Motors

EMP is a motor company that has been around for a while. Do a search here and see that a lot of folks use their motors with great success.

Their two speed motors are a great compromise for high torque/high speed needs.

Good luck!
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Unread 05-26-2016, 01:16 PM   #5
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Default Re: Electrical Motor Products, Inc- Custom Motors

Wow they are quick too. They already got back with me today and gave me some options. Here are my options so far, please feel free to share your input
Their suggestions for me:
OPTIONS
----------------------------------------------------------------

OPTION 1 - UPGRADE YOUR MOTOR – EJ8-4001A-LR
This option would involve using stock motor and upgrading for improved performance. We would rewind the field to better optimize with your speed control. Also, we would make other magnetic changes to improve hill climb speed. There are options to make the motor tougher like a heavy duty brush mechanism and also options to help protect the motor like the thermostat.
I should tell you that the aggressive grades, large tires, 4 passenger loading, and speed goals make this a pretty demanding job for the stock motor and I would not normally recommend this option for such an application. Still, if you protect the motor appropriately, this can be an acceptable option.

RETAIL PRICING: (customer provides good core "EJ" motor in advance):
$250 -- Base Price**
+ $ 25 - OPTIONAL -- upgrade to heavy duty brush mech
+ $ 50 - OPTIONAL Normally open thermostat
+ $s/h -- 50 pound motor
** repairs or extraneous work will add cost

RETAIL PRICING(EMP provides core motor)
$350 -- Base Price
+ $200 -- core charge (refundable)
+ $ 25 - OPTIONAL -- upgrade to heavy duty brush mech
+ $ 50 - OPTIONAL Normally open thermostat
+ $s/h -- 50 pound motor

Availability: Fair .. >10 cores on hand

--------------------------------------------------

OPTION 2 - SLIGHTLY TOUGHER MOTOR -- EX1-4005-LR*z2
This option is similar to option 1 in performance, but the brush system is 25% larger in cross section and the brush mechanism comes standard as the heavy duty type. These features simply allow the motor to be tougher and handle more loading with less chance of overheat.

RETAIL PRICING (customer provides good "EJ" core motor in advance for swap):
$300 -- Base Price
+ $ 0 -- STANDARD - heavy duty brush mechanism
+ $ 50 -- Normally open thermostat (OPTIONAL)
+ $s/h -- 52 pound motor

RETAIL PRICING(EMP provides core motor)
$350 -- Base Price
+ $200 -- core charge (refundable)
+ $ 0 -- STANDARD - heavy duty brush mechanism
+ $ 50 -- Normally open thermostat (OPTIONAL)
+ $s/h -- 52 pound motor

Availability: Good .. >50 cores on hand

--------------------------------------------------

OPTION 3 - LIMO STYLE MOTOR - XP-1982-LR
This option is a large motor with large brush system, heavy duty brush mechanism, longer stack, and larger conductors throughout. As a result, this is the toughest of the options. However, this is a pretty large motor, so you would absolutely want to make sure it would fit before you order. Fit should be verified both for ability to install and also to make sure that clearances are maintained during suspension travel. See simple hand sketch below, but realize that a speed sensor would also be mounted to the end of the motor, adding another 0.5” (as we would use the low profile style sensor which is about 2” diameter)



WHOLESALE PRICING:
$350 -- Base Price (when EJ core present)
+ $275 -- core charge
+ $ 0 -- STANDARD - heavy duty brush mechanism
+ $ 50 -- OPTIONAL - thermostat
+ s/h -- 65 pound motor
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Unread 05-26-2016, 02:02 PM   #6
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Default Re: Electrical Motor Products, Inc- Custom Motors

If funds are not limited...Do option 3 if it'll fit. $350 for a motor is not bad at all. Mine was almost double that, but I know it gives me what I need and will last a long time.
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Unread 05-26-2016, 02:50 PM   #7
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Default Re: Electrical Motor Products, Inc- Custom Motors

I like option #3 as well, the longer stack and heavier conductors should make it a much tougher motor.

#2 would be second choice if that motor does not fit in the Precedent with your lift.

Did they give you the specs on diameter and length for that #3 motor?
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Unread 05-26-2016, 04:25 PM   #8
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Default Re: Electrical Motor Products, Inc- Custom Motors

They gave him a sketch of the motor that showed the dimensions. It's 11.5 inches long from where it fits flush against the differential to the tip of the speed sensor. I have a Precedent here with a 6" lift on it that I measured for clearance. I don't think he'll have any issue at all with that motor. I told him the shock may need to be removed for installation of the motor, but it can be reinstalled after the motor is bolted up.
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Unread 05-26-2016, 09:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: Electrical Motor Products, Inc- Custom Motors

thanks for all your help as well TahoeDawgZ71 you have been a great help
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Unread 05-26-2016, 09:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: Electrical Motor Products, Inc- Custom Motors

Ok I am going to continue here ( I am just amazed at the wealth of knowledge
EMP has provided me with.

Here is what I told them I have and my performance is and what I want to achieve: VEHICLE INFORMATION

Club Car, 48V, IQ, 4 passenger, 23" tires, Alltrax XCT500 control, EJ8-4001A motor, windshield, roof



APPLICATION INFO and PERFORMANCE TARGETS

Present top speed 25 MPH, target 28-30 MPH.

Faster hill climb speed desired.

Max expected loading 600 pounds.

Topographical review around provided addresses shows off road grades as steep as 32% (Remington area). On road grades are typically much less aggressive and generally less than 5% (in the subdivision area).

Interested in 2-speed possibilities.

************************************************** ***************
now after the first set of options I sent them this letter below i am quoting myself here: "I'm really leaning toward option two but I just want to know the main differences between option two an option three as a torque percentage increases and horsepower and future speed upgrades?"
************************************************** ***************
Now below is their replay very interesting I am learning so much

"I will try to answer all of the questions you asked. Just let me know if you still have any remaining questions.

HIGH SPEED BANDING
---------------------------------
This can be added to any of the options. However, just because you add high speed banding does not mean that a motor would even want to go that fast. The amount of top speed a motor can achieve is dependent on both motor design and control settings. (This is especially true for a shunt system like yours.)


FUTURE SPEED UPGRADES
----------------------------------------
My initial response to your questionnaire was to design motors that would achieve your target speed. Now, that does not mean that this is necessarily the fastest top speed that could be achieved. However, if you are planning on en even higher top speed, then, even if you won’t set the vehicle up that way right now, you would want to tell me so that I could give you some faster options. The first 3 options that I presented could go slightly faster than the 28-30 MPH (with 23” tires and stock gears) but not much. I have calculated maximum recommended top speeds for these designs below. The actual maximum top speed calculation takes into account several variables including commutation, thermal issues, etc. So I won’t tell you that a motor could be made to achieve 40 MPH if I determine this would cause very short life.

OPTION 1 - EJ8-4001A-LR
Max recommended top speed design would achieve 30 MPH.
(As I stated before, you could conceivably run this motor harder by adjusting the control settings, but due to current densities you would likely cause overheat.)

OPTION 2 - SLIGHTLY TOUGHER MOTOR -- EX1-4005-LR*z2

Max recommended top speed design would achieve 32 MPH.

OPTION 3 - LIMO STYLE MOTOR - XP-1982-LR

Max recommended top speed design would achieve 32 MPH.
(limiting factors here are commutation related and not thermal.)


ARE THERE FASTER MOTORS???
The answer is yes, of course. I originally had not provided any faster options than your speed target. So, if speed is something your might want a lot more of, please take a look at option 4 which I will add into this response. These are some motors that could be capable of even higher top speeds, but would not produce enough torque to even climb your grades, so I have left them out.


TORQUE
------------
Just so I can keep consistent, I am going to provide you calculated MOTOR torque with your 500 amp control. Also, I will provide calculated torque required for your vehicle as configured (23” tires, stock gears) to do different tasks, just so you can see how much torque you really need.

HOW MUCH TORQUE DO YOU NEED?
Following are required amounts of motor torque for different tasks.
Flat ground, 200# driver only – 4.3 pound feet
Flat ground, 600# total load -- 5.1 pound feet
10% grade, 200# driver only – 15.5 pound feet
10% grade, 600# total load -- 20 pound feet
20% grade, 200# driver only – 27 pound feet
20% grade, 600# total load -- 35 pound feet
32% grade, 200# driver only – 39 pound feet
32% grade, 600# total load -- 52 pound feet

(So a good motor would be able to produce at least 52 pound feet of torque. I usually recommend about 20% more so you can actually start the vehicle on your steepest grades.)

HOW MUCH TORQUE CAN EACH OPTION MAKE?
Following are calculations of ultimate torque that each motor could make. This is maximum torque. Many people will incorrectly chase maximum torque around, only looking for the highest possible number. In many cases, the highest ultimate torque motor may lack any peppiness at all, but it could probably help your golf car drive up a mountain. So, get what you need from max torque.

PRESENT STOCK MOTOR – max torque = 80 pound feet
OPTION 1 - EJ8-4001A-LR – max torque = 86 pound feet
OPTION 2 - SLIGHTLY TOUGHER MOTOR -- EX1-4005-LR*z2– max torque = 86 pound feet
OPTION 3 - LIMO STYLE MOTOR - XP-1982-LR - max torque = 86 pound feet


(So all of the options, no big surprise, should be able to climb your grades. The reason you might choose option 2, 3, or 4 would really be more about how tough you want the motor to be as options 1-3 all make about the same ultimate torque.)


FASTER OPTIONS
--------------------------
If you just plain want speed, then there are other options. Be aware that most options that improve top speed will tend to lose some of the maximum torque. This just means that if you wanted to go real fast and still be able to climb really steep grades, you could even find that you could need an even larger controller.

--------------------------------------------------------
OPTION 4 – upgraded GE aftermarket motor – 5BC49JB3071-LR
This option is one of the motors GE made for the aftermarket. It was always designed to be a fast motor. The armature conductors are significantly larger than with any of the 3 earlier options presented. The brushes are larger in cross section than either option 1 or option 2, but slightly smaller than in option 3. As a result of all of this, top speed designs as fast as 35-40 MPH range. However, on the downside, maximum torque (with 500 amp control) would only be about 54 pound feet of torque, so it would just barely be able to produce the torque required to climb the steepest grades with a 600# of load on the vehicle.

WHOLESALE PRICING:
$350 -- Base Price
+ $275 -- core charge
+ $ 0 -- STANDARD - heavy duty brush mechanism
+ $ 50 -- OPTIONAL - thermostat
+ s/h -- 50 pound motor

--------------------------------------------------------

I know I am covering you up with information, but please let me know if you require more details.

I realized I had not yet calculated HP for you. I can do this, but I often caution people about using HP as a measurement stick. The reason is that the DC motor world, especially for low voltage golf car motors, is not very consistent from manufacturer to manufacturer. For a HP rating to even make sense, it would have to include, at a minimum, HP, Time Rating, and Voltage. I have seen the same motor sold with multiple different ratings. There were exactly the same components inside the motor, but a different rating. Is that being dishonest? Not really, if you look at the details. If you went back to the mod 1980’s a normal 36V golf car motor was often rated, on its nameplate, at 2HP. However, that motor would have a peak output of around 14 HP. So, theoretically, you could rate the motor anywhere up to 14 HP. However, it could probably only do 14 HP for a very short time, less than a minute, before it “smoked”. So, be very wary about HP ratings. There is no consistent discipline in the low voltage DC motors. (If you get into larger AC or DC motors, the rules and regulations are much better defined, so it is much easier to compare big motors to each other.)

ALLTRAX FIELD MAP
-----------------------------
By the way, the good folks at Alltrax have sent me the field map that you presently have so I can study it. It just came in, so I still have to load it up and evaluate it."
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