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Unread 06-29-2016, 09:40 AM   #11
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Default Re: Seeking AMD 7144 (GG1-4002) Specs

There are physical and electrical limits to these motors, those guidelines make sense.

Scottyb, if You have a good relation with those guys at Alltrax, ask them about speed motors with "advanced brush time" and Regen compatibility.

I am curious if they have any insight if the custom speed motors are using more advanced timing then the commercially produced speed motors and that can make them more prone to arcing during Regen.
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Unread 06-29-2016, 09:49 AM   #12
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Default Re: Seeking AMD 7144 (GG1-4002) Specs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
There are physical and electrical limits to these motors, those guidelines make sense.

Scottyb, if You have a good relation with those guys at Alltrax, ask them about speed motors with "advanced brush time" and Regen compatibility.

I am curious if they have any insight if the custom speed motors are using more advanced timing then the commercially produced speed motors and that can make them more prone to arcing during Regen.

I have access (with assistance) to Alltrax design and engineering. PM the question you want me to ask. Choose your wording so you get exactly the info you want.
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Unread 06-29-2016, 10:38 AM   #13
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Default Re: Seeking AMD 7144 (GG1-4002) Specs

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Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
HorsePower is roughly equivalent to Torque x RPM.

You definitely need the correct Field Map from Alltrax to get the top speed that motor can develop.

This is the Motor Curve for the Standard ADC motor, please note the maximum Armature current for a 5 amp field is 130amps, Your motor can go up to 200amps which means it is producing a lot more torque at higher RPM than the standard motor.
http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/attac...ning_curve.jpg
Thanks... I've made a few requests to Alltrax but have yet to receive a reply.

In terms of interpreting the field weakening chart I shared earlier... it looks like the bottom of the curve is flat up to armature current of 200a, the curve then takes that up to around 320a before the curve then flattens out again. A bit hard to determine from the note "do not operate to right of curve" - I read this as do not exceed the ~320a but are you saying that it's actually 200 where the curve starts ? I'm not sure what the field current max is - looking at the chart, again I'd interpret that max as the top of the curve - so around 24.

Overall - the field map from Alltrax should address this - unless anyone has experience in taking the supplied field weakening chart and determining appropriate values to set in the XCT for max armature amps, max battery amps, regen armature amps, etc.

Would still be great if AMD/Advanced actually responded and provided full specs, but I'm not holding my breath on that one...
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Unread 06-29-2016, 11:22 AM   #14
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Default Re: Seeking AMD 7144 (GG1-4002) Specs

Those motor maps will not help you with the Alltrax controller, You need to get the correct field map either from Alltrax directly or from the dealer that sold You the controller.

There are some controllers on the market, like the Curtis 1268, where the information on the graph can be used to "build" a field map.

Just ask Alltrax or the Dealer for the AMD 7144 field map file for the XCT controller (it is different from the old DCX controller), perhaps how you asked for the information confused the sales people.
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Unread 06-29-2016, 03:15 PM   #15
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Default Re: Seeking AMD 7144 (GG1-4002) Specs

I shared map GG1-4002-v4 with him which Alltrax assures me is the latest and greatest (V4) to date. I also shared Alltrax's recommendation for 6000 max RPM with a motor preference for 51-5500 rpm for daily use
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Unread 06-29-2016, 05:07 PM   #16
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Default Re: Seeking AMD 7144 (GG1-4002) Specs

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Originally Posted by scottyb View Post
I shared map GG1-4002-v4 with him which Alltrax assures me is the latest and greatest (V4) to date. I also shared Alltrax's recommendation for 6000 max RPM with a motor preference for 51-5500 rpm for daily use
As always, thanks Scotty - quite helpful and much more responsive than some of the hardware manufacturers....

I did hear back from AMD directly this afternoon. I was provided with two variants of the field limitation curves which are posted here.

Additionally - they shared the following:

"Field weakening curves determine the field map settings so here you will see that the maximum allowed armature amps are 325 in low speed & full field and the same for high speed which hopefully matches closely with the maximum current of the controller that you are using. Maximum RPM rating should stay below 5000 RPM as a matter of keeping the integrity of the brazing and varnish that keep the armature coils in place within the armature assembly. Any speed beyond this RPM I believe you are taking a risk of potentially throwing a winding and damaging most likely the entire motor assembly, not just the armature. I hope that this is the information that you were searching for with your query."

In the next day or two I'll load the new field map that ScottyB provided, note what settings that resulted in, and do some tests and report back here on results.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 7144_GG1-4002_High_Speed.jpg (275.8 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg 7144_GG1-4002_Low_Speed.jpg (274.3 KB, 0 views)
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Unread 06-29-2016, 06:02 PM   #17
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Smile Re: Seeking AMD 7144 (GG1-4002) Specs

Just an interesting side note...my background is an auto electric rebuild shop owner. We had huge problems with early single direction Warn winches throwing bars in the armature because our customers would tie off to a tree or some other solid object with their winch cable an unwind the cable by backing the vehicle away from the tree...this created a high speed spinning of the winch armature through the gearing of the winch causing the centrifical force to throw the bars (or armature connections to the commutator). To help with this issue our armature builder would use nylon fishing line wrapped around this critical area and then use the armature epoxy and oven bake them to cure the epoxy. This would improve the life of these abused winch motors considerably and we gained a reputation for fixing these winch motors better than most. I believe the same technique could be used on these high speed motors and allow considerably more armature rpm...if anybody cares.
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Unread 06-29-2016, 06:07 PM   #18
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Default Re: Seeking AMD 7144 (GG1-4002) Specs

Some custom builders do offer a type of banding which increases allowable rpm but seriously..... why take the motor to the brink of destruction. You don't drive your car that way.


...or do you ?
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Unread 06-29-2016, 06:09 PM   #19
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Default Re: Seeking AMD 7144 (GG1-4002) Specs

That technique has been used for the last 75+ years it's called banding
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Unread 06-30-2016, 12:31 PM   #20
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Default Re: Seeking AMD 7144 (GG1-4002) Specs

I really appreciate Alltrax keeping me in the loop Will sent email this am telling me about a new map for this motor that develops more torque.

Hey Scotty,

The last 7144 field map I sent you was the most up to date but I just got the final version. This one should keep the same top speed but have a little torque up hills, if the customer feels he loses top speed he can keep using the one I sent you last (V4) itís perfectly safe for the motor, (Engineer) just wanted some more torque out of it so he touched up the map so this will be our new factory map for the 7144- Version 5
My customers can contact me via email for this map. All others please call Alltrax 541-476-3565
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