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Old 02-26-2017, 10:52 AM   #1
smokey tennis shoe
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Default what is wrong with these battery readings?

Info first -- 2010 precedent with hi speed motor and 12" wheels, all else stock.

Installed new 8 volt trojans 3 weeks ago. I UNDERSTAND THESE BATTERIES ARE NOT YET BROKEN IN!!!

After driving to golf course ( about 1 mile) then 18 holes of golf, on the 17th hole the yellow battery lite will come on. On the way home with the yellow lite coming on and i notice some loss of power.

Here is my questions :

18 month warranty on batteries, so before i go back to the battery store, i did my own testing.

The battery store, per trojan, will not warranty a battery if it will run for 60 minutes.

So i fully charge the batteries, and let them sit for a day and a half.
At that time the pack was 51.1 volts.

Hooked up lester discharge machine, battery run time was 99 minutes.
I was taking voltage readings along the way.

At the end of the discharge ( 99 minutes), the individual readings were :

7.19
6.73
6.92
7.19
7.02
7.09

So 99 minutes would seem great, however the yellow lite and loss of power tells me there is a battery failure.

I would think the batteries that still had 7 volts in them would be fine, but i question the one that have less than 7, only compared to the others??

Is that range difference between the 6's and the 7's an issue or problem?

If i take the pack back to the battery store, they do this same procedure i just did, and since the pack will go over 60 minutes, they will not warranty them, although maybe 1 or 2 are lower.

Is the 6"s damaged? The entire pack holds for 99 minutes, but not 1 complete round of golf is unacceptable with new trojan T875 batteries.

Help? Suggestions? Advice?
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Old 02-26-2017, 10:56 AM   #2
Kashmir
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Default Re: what is wrong with these battery readings?

This has me interested as well. I'll be getting new 875's within a month...
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Old 02-26-2017, 11:34 AM   #3
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Default Re: what is wrong with these battery readings?

I am not sure about warranty claims but they should be able to load test them individually. Based on your numbers, you may have 2 bad batteries unless you have a 16/12 volt reducer pulling off the 2 batteries which are lower that you were running a stereo off etc while playing golf.

I will say breaking in my batteries (t875's) was a huge improvement, and you should not be playing more then 9 rounds on a new pack per the break in instructions at the top of the screen.

I also ask, did you fully charge them before playing or assume they came charged?
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Old 02-26-2017, 12:32 PM   #4
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Default Re: what is wrong with these battery readings?

Do all six batteries have same date code stamped in negative terminal?

What are the pack and individual battery voltages 12 hours after a full charge?

Your discharge tester terminates the discharge at at 42.0V for a 48V pack, which it thinks is 1.75VPC, or 7.0V per each 8V battery, but the batteries are connected in series, so you end up with an average of 1.75VPC with lower capacity cells/batteries being discharged more while higher capacity cells/batteries discharged less.

About the same thing happens during charge. The lower capacity batteries end up at full charge first and end up being overcharged and getting hot while the higher capacity batteries end up being undercharged. The net result is the capacity spread increase over time.

Ideally, the after full discharge voltage for all six 8V batteries should be in the 6.95V to 7.05V range, and should be all within 0.1V of each other when fully charged.

Here is what I'd do.

Rig up a 12V 55W halogen bulb in series with a 12V charger and give each of the two reading less than 7.0V a 12 to 24 hour charge.

Then connect them back up in series to make a 48V pack and give the pack two or three back to back (Equalization) charges. (IIRC you have to reset the OBC to do an equalization charge, or use a charger that thinks for itself.)

-----------
Another way would be to connect all six batteries in parallel and charge with a 12V charger whose max output is about 10A or so until the on-charge voltage reaches about 10V. Then connect the six batteries back into series to form a 48V pack and do an equalization charge with the regular 48V charger.
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Old 02-26-2017, 02:16 PM   #5
Kashmir
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Default Re: what is wrong with these battery readings?

^^^That right there is what I love about this place!
This is the valuable information that helps all of us!

Thanks JohnnieB !!!

EDIT: I copied and pasted this into a word document. Now I have it for eternity!!!
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Old 02-26-2017, 02:33 PM   #6
scottyb
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Default Re: what is wrong with these battery readings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokey tennis shoe View Post
Info first -- 2010 precedent with hi speed motor and 12" wheels, all else stock.

Installed new 8 volt trojans 3 weeks ago. I UNDERSTAND THESE BATTERIES ARE NOT YET BROKEN IN!!!

After driving to golf course ( about 1 mile) then 18 holes of golf, on the 17th hole the yellow battery lite will come on. On the way home with the yellow lite coming on and i notice some loss of power.

Here is my questions :

18 month warranty on batteries, so before i go back to the battery store, i did my own testing.

The battery store, per trojan, will not warranty a battery if it will run for 60 minutes.

So i fully charge the batteries, and let them sit for a day and a half.
At that time the pack was 51.1 volts.

Hooked up lester discharge machine, battery run time was 99 minutes.
I was taking voltage readings along the way.

At the end of the discharge ( 99 minutes), the individual readings were :

7.19
6.73
6.92
7.19
7.02
7.09

So 99 minutes would seem great, however the yellow lite and loss of power tells me there is a battery failure.

I would think the batteries that still had 7 volts in them would be fine, but i question the one that have less than 7, only compared to the others??

Is that range difference between the 6's and the 7's an issue or problem?

If i take the pack back to the battery store, they do this same procedure i just did, and since the pack will go over 60 minutes, they will not warranty them, although maybe 1 or 2 are lower.

Is the 6"s damaged? The entire pack holds for 99 minutes, but not 1 complete round of golf is unacceptable with new trojan T875 batteries.

Help? Suggestions? Advice?

7v is way too low for an 8v battery. And 6.something ? You're killing them.
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Old 02-26-2017, 03:09 PM   #7
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Default Re: what is wrong with these battery readings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kashmir View Post
^^^That right there is what I love about this place!
This is the valuable information that helps all of us!

Thanks JohnnieB !!!

EDIT: I copied and pasted this into a word document. Now I have it for eternity!!!
More importantly, my keyboard is still working after I posted to a CC forum.

Here are a couple tips on the care and feeding of new batteries.

Check the date codes before accepting. No two batteries are exactly the same, but the closer they are in the production run, the closer they tend to be and the time they spend in transit and/or on the shelf is closer to the same.

Check the as-received voltages before doing the initial charge. If any are more than about 0.1V away from any of the others, give the lower voltage one(s) a boost charge.

Do the initial charge before use and check the at-rest (12 hour after charger shuts off -- or half an hour after a 1 or 2 mile run). If any are more than 0.1V away from the others, do an equalization charge.

Basically, try to get the battery voltages all within 0.1V of each other, or closer, before breaking in the batteries and they will all age at about the same rate.

Check the individual battery voltages periodically (two or three times a year, or so) and equalize as required.

------------
I special ordered my batteries through a tractor supply (Rural King) since they didn't carry what I wanted in stock and all seven of the 6V-245AH batteries were within a spread of 0.02V. Plus, they were at 93% SoC as received, so they hadn't sat around for very long. They drift apart over time, but after 4 years, they are still staying within 0.05V after equalization.
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Old 02-26-2017, 03:15 PM   #8
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Default Re: what is wrong with these battery readings?

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyb View Post
7v is way too low for an 8v battery. And 6.something ? You're killing them.
What should you discharge 8V batteries to when doing a load test?
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Old 02-26-2017, 05:19 PM   #9
smokey tennis shoe
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Default Re: what is wrong with these battery readings?

To answer 1 question, yes i charged these batteries the first time, before using.
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Old 02-26-2017, 05:21 PM   #10
smokey tennis shoe
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Default Re: what is wrong with these battery readings?

yes all 6 batteries have the same date code B7
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