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Unread 06-12-2019, 10:24 AM   #1
Not Yet Wild
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Default No regen

I finally got my 2003 DS IQ back together and running. It has a stock controller and a D&D 170-506-0002 motor that was just rebuilt, got a whole new end cap from D&D and the comm turned and undercut. Also 6 brand new T-875 batteries.

The cart seems to have no regen at all is this normal with my setup?
This is my first cart so I'm not 100% sure what regen should feel like but when you let off the GO pedal it doesn't really slow at all just kinda coast along and need to use the brake to slow.
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Unread 06-12-2019, 11:06 AM   #2
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Default Re: No regen

It's a high speed motor. D&D uses a 4-pole (high speed) magnet in their high speed motors instead of the factory 8-pole design. Because of this, the controller only detects half of the RPM that the motor is running. This is the only way you can achieve high speed with a factory controller without the controller trying to limit your speed to it's pre-programmed settings. A side effect of installing a high speed magnet in an IQ motor is the loss of regen.

If you want regen, you have two options.

Option A - Put a factory 8-pole magnet in the motor. The side effect from this is much lower speeds. If your controller is on speed setting 3, you're only gonna see 14.8 MPH out of the car, but you'll have regen.

Option B - Purchase an Alltrax XCT controller. In the settings you can set the controller up to accurately monitor motor RPM with a 4 pole magnet. The XCT will also have the ability to provide regen braking, with a MAX RPM slider adjustment. This way you'll be able to keep your speed and have regen at the same time.
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Unread 06-12-2019, 11:09 AM   #3
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Default Re: No regen

And Regen is not quite that strong on a stock set-up unless set higher with a handheld. With several aftermarket manufacturer's they will remove a lot of the regen capabilities on a high speed motor (which you have) so as to not rip the armature apart if you were coming down a hill at high speed and the regen kicked in.....

My PQ has very little and that is with an aftermarket controller adjusting it. You have a stock Curtis.
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Unread 06-12-2019, 11:59 AM   #4
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Default Re: No regen

I agree with everything you said except for the reason high speed motors typically don't do regen.

It has more to do on how they make the motor go faster, if it is done by changing commutator timing then the Regen process can cause plasma arcing that can reduce the commutator/motor life.

There is at least one manufacturer that claims their high speed mortor is fully compatible with Regen and they don't have any warnings to avoid using at high speed.
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Unread 06-12-2019, 12:10 PM   #5
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Default Re: No regen

Could be, this was explained to me by the motor guy at our old rebuild shop and then Robby at PQ told me that when I inquired a few years ago. Made sense since I had seen several get torn up by the situations they stated, but I can see the merit in your points also. I guess there are several things behind it and what the manufacture is comfortable with in their product.

I will say of all the regen motors I have ran, none will pull like the PQ's and they have always been terrific in my experiences here and abroad with family/friends, so if I just lose some regen, I do not complain.....(Although as you know, I am a BIG proponent of Regen and I have the other DS and the Precedent turned up)

I have your custom device on the other lithium cart.
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Unread 06-12-2019, 12:13 PM   #6
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Default Re: No regen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
-snip-
There is at least one manufacturer that claims their high speed motor is fully compatible with Regen and they don't have any warnings to avoid using at high speed.
Is that FSIP or EMP? (PM me if you do not want to say here)
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Unread 06-12-2019, 12:53 PM   #7
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Default Re: No regen

I cannot remember right now, it used to be on their site main page, something like "our motors are designed to provide regen", I will do a little search to see if I can find it.

I think most folks that say they don't like Regen brake is because it engages when they let go the gas pedal, not that they don't like how smoothly it slows the cart once you engage it.

Maybe the industry will catch up with us DIYers one day

Edit:
https://ddmotorsystems.com/
Found it, it is D&D, look at the "New and Future Releases" in the main page:
Quote:
D&D Motors Systems is currently the only electric motor manufacturer with True Regen High Speed and High Torque replacement motors

Last edited by Sergio; 06-12-2019 at 01:00 PM.. Reason: Found Motor manufacturer
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Unread 06-12-2019, 01:24 PM   #8
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Default Re: No regen

Interesting so I wonder if that is something new for their motor's? Mine was made 3/29/07 so maybe they made a change since that time to support regen.

I guess since I never had a cart before I really don't know what I'm missing and it doesn't really bother me. Was just with all the work I had to do on the cart and the new batteries a controller/ motor upgrade just wasn't in the cards right now. It only cost me around $200 to rebuild this motor with a whole new end cap from D&D and the comm work. The brush holder in the old cap broke and tore up a couple brushes and made a big mess but the comm was savable.
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Unread 06-12-2019, 01:50 PM   #9
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Default Re: No regen

In your case David (TahoeDawgZ71) explanation is spot on, the OEM IQ controller does not handle Regen well when used with a high speed magnet.

NoleFan4Ever and I were talking about when using that motor with a Controller like Altrax that has a lot more Regen capability and settings.

Some high speed motor manufactures, not D&D, recommend not generating much Regen current due to their specific motor design.
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Unread 06-12-2019, 03:10 PM   #10
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Default Re: No regen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
Found it, it is D&D, look at the "New and Future Releases" in the main page:
Thanks, saw it. I wonder why it only mentions the EZGO line.... I would think they would be applicable in any line.
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