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Unread 10-31-2010, 12:56 AM   #1
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Default 36v & 48v motor differences

hi. been doing a lot of reading/research but i haven't found a clear answer to this yet...

i have '97 48v ds series cart. i would like to drop in a 36v motor to add some mph but haven't been able to find a used/broken one to play with. are the 36v and 48v cores identical aside from number of turns on the stator? ie: can i rewind my 48v motor with a hotter wind to perform like a 36v? or do i need to start with a 36v core?

looking forward to some expert input! cheers!
-sj
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Unread 10-31-2010, 03:11 AM   #2
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Default Re: 36v & 48v motor differences

Check this out



Field coil rewind
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Unread 10-31-2010, 03:39 AM   #3
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Default Re: 36v & 48v motor differences

hey, thanx for the link rib33024! i actually watched all 6 of his videos the other night... somehow i missed the thread though. i'll give it a read!
-sj
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Unread 10-31-2010, 04:34 AM   #4
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Default Re: 36v & 48v motor differences

looks like i just need to pull off my motor and see what i'm working with. i suspect they (series wound) are all about the same, just more or less turns in the field.

i think redriderno22's rewind would've worked if he had better copper fill. less turns on the field meant he was pulling more current. if you look at the photo, you can see the teeth are only about 1/2 full. doubling up on the wire (ie: 2 parrallel strands) would have doubled the amount of current the field was capable of handling. 2 strands of 9awg sounds like a real PITA though (1 strand of 9 sounds like a PITA). 3 or 4 strands of smaller AWG seems much more practical for hand winding one of these motors...

are those lugs not soldered inside the motors? i would think if they weren't soldered, they would need to be bolted down on the lug to avoid resistance.

anywho, gotta work up the courage to rewind my one and only motor! anyone have a burned up junker for sale?
-sj
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Unread 10-31-2010, 09:45 AM   #5
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Default Re: 36v & 48v motor differences

The main difference is that a 36 volt motor uses much heavier material in windings and armature and if you can find a older model ( Personally I like pre 1995 motors ) it will be much better quality manufactured.
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Unread 10-31-2010, 10:25 AM   #6
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Default Re: 36v & 48v motor differences

accually in a stock motor the wire is welded to the lug

these vids were my first try at rewinding motors.

with this particular motor i got the speed i was looking for but its ability to take alot of current was way down, so it diddnt last long

but i have found many other ways to improve the performance of these stock motors without a rewind.
IE brush advancement, shave the comm, and take some weight off the armature.

keep an eye out for more vids on rewinds.
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Unread 10-31-2010, 10:33 AM   #7
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Default Re: 36v & 48v motor differences

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicj View Post
looks like i just need to pull off my motor and see what i'm working with. i suspect they (series wound) are all about the same, just more or less turns in the field.

i think redriderno22's rewind would've worked if he had better copper fill. less turns on the field meant he was pulling more current. if you look at the photo, you can see the teeth are only about 1/2 full. doubling up on the wire (ie: 2 parrallel strands) would have doubled the amount of current the field was capable of handling. 2 strands of 9awg sounds like a real PITA though (1 strand of 9 sounds like a PITA). 3 or 4 strands of smaller AWG seems much more practical for hand winding one of these motors...

are those lugs not soldered inside the motors? i would think if they weren't soldered, they would need to be bolted down on the lug to avoid resistance.

anywho, gotta work up the courage to rewind my one and only motor! anyone have a burned up junker for sale?
-sj
yes if i had doubled the amount of wire in the core its ability to take more current would have doubled but so would the strenght of the field, well mabe not doubled but i was looking to get speed from this motor by weakening the field. in a nutshell.....
but the science to this endless.
so many little changes to these motors can make a big diffrence to the way they perform.
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Unread 10-31-2010, 05:43 PM   #8
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Default Re: 36v & 48v motor differences

Quote:
Originally Posted by OLD MEC View Post
The main difference is that a 36 volt motor uses much heavier material in windings and armature and if you can find a older model ( Personally I like pre 1995 motors ) it will be much better quality manufactured.
thanx old mec! i'll keep an eye out for a older motor!

Quote:
Originally Posted by redriderno22 View Post
accually in a stock motor the wire is welded to the lug

these vids were my first try at rewinding motors.

with this particular motor i got the speed i was looking for but its ability to take alot of current was way down, so it diddnt last long

but i have found many other ways to improve the performance of these stock motors without a rewind.
IE brush advancement, shave the comm, and take some weight off the armature.
hey redriderno22! i enjoyed watching your videos!

could the Cu possibly be brazed to the lug?

how difficult is it to advance the timing? what did you use to shave the comm? i would imagine that it would require a pretty big lathe to handle a armature that size!

Quote:
Originally Posted by redriderno22 View Post
yes if i had doubled the amount of wire in the core its ability to take more current would have doubled but so would the strenght of the field, well mabe not doubled but i was looking to get speed from this motor by weakening the field. in a nutshell.....
but the science to this endless.
so many little changes to these motors can make a big diffrence to the way they perform.
more copper = more power handling. speed is a function of # of turns. once you figure out how many turns will give you the speed (Kv) you desire, a wire diameter that gives the most "fill" should be chosen.

adjusting timing can have adverse affects on comm & brush life. not saying its not practical for our purposes but its something to consider. unless motor weight is a concern (its not), adding more copper is always a step forward for performance!

btw, my experience with motors is of the brushless RC type. large series wound is new territory for me.
-sj
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Unread 10-31-2010, 06:51 PM   #9
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Default Re: 36v & 48v motor differences

hey redriderno22, a couple things i noticed with your rewind... not sure what kind of tape you used, but high heat tape is essential! check this out:
polyimide tape
its high heat and is nearly impossible to tear by hand. this can be used to insulate the field cores from nicking the wire insulation. the fiberglass caps you mentioned are another good method. you can also bevel the sharp edges with a dremel or file. attached is a photo of a stator i insulated with jbweld. note the rounded edges.

i also noticed you mentioned pulling the wires tight. the advantage to pulling the wires tight is to allow for maximum fill. the upside is that you can fit more copper between the teeth, the downside is that it increases the chances of nicking the insulation. when you wind for high fill, neatness counts! with the motors i've rewound, misplacing a single turn would keep me from being able to finish the wind. manufacturers rarely go to such lengths and if they do, the motor usually costs big $! thats why a carefully rewound motor will outperform a stock motor.

the 2nd pic is one of my first rewind attempts. notice the lack of fill between the teeth. the last pic is of a similar stator with better fill. this motor will spin at the same speed as the previous motor (if the number of turns are equal. i don't think they are, but pretend they are just as an example), but will handle substantially more power before letting the magic smoke out.

hope this makes sense! cheers!
-sj
Attached Images
File Type: jpg jb_stator.jpg (46.7 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg bw_13t1.jpg (80.3 KB, 9 views)
File Type: jpg 2812.jpg (79.6 KB, 9 views)
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Unread 10-31-2010, 10:31 PM   #10
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Default Re: 36v & 48v motor differences

im glad someone enjoyed the vids..

but yes i see your point on the amount of copper fill.

brush timing is trickey 2-5 degrees is good, that ive found

too far and the motor fights itself (hard to explain)

but weakening the field, advancing the brush set, and putting the armature on a diet
are fairly easy ways to get more speed from a stock motor.

but and this is a big BUT without balancing and re banding the armature most stock motors will turn to shreded copper at or beyond 8k
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