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Unread 06-28-2011, 01:33 PM   #41
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Default Re: What I found out about Trojan?

I hear what you're sayin' Shadowman. When we started working on this 5 months ago, the price was going to be about 2x as much. We had to work every angle possible to get it down this far. I'm sure this isn't a good option for lots of people. But for some people who need to get better range, or not have to keep up with maintenance, or not worry about batteries freezing, or who simply have money they're ready to spend, then these are now an option which does make sense long-term.
Like I've said before, lithium batteries will probably never cost less than lead-acid straight off the shelf. But because they last 3-4 times as many cycles, they cost less in the long run. If you can pony up the cash, you'll save big over time. In my opinion, E-Z-Go, CC, and Yamaha should be putting lithium batteries in their carts from the factory. It would make life easier for every sparky owner.

Yeah, these lithium batteries cost more than many of the carts out there do, but that just drives the point home further. Not much has changed mechanically on a golf cart in 30 years. Not much goes wrong with them either. The biggest cost is the batteries. If that's where the biggest cost is, then it makes sense to give your batteries high priority.

Last edited by lithium.paul; 06-28-2011 at 01:40 PM.. Reason: Incomplete
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Unread 06-28-2011, 03:18 PM   #42
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Default Re: What I found out about Trojan?

i don,t disagree with you at all, its not the product cause it sounds like its an awsome battery....its cost pure and simple...heck when i tell people if they spend the money on trogans and maintain them they,ll get 10 years out of them vs what walmart or sears sell and no matter what your only gonna get 5 years if your lucky......they could care less.....they buy the wally world batteries, i have seen those batteries go down the comode after 18 months and they buy another set.....you can,t make them understand....to them a battery is a battery.............most people not all............but lets say 1 in 25 will get it....small window there.....................
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Unread 06-28-2011, 03:30 PM   #43
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Default Re: What I found out about Trojan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lithium.paul View Post
I hear what you're sayin' Shadowman. When we started working on this 5 months ago, the price was going to be about 2x as much. We had to work every angle possible to get it down this far. I'm sure this isn't a good option for lots of people. But for some people who need to get better range, or not have to keep up with maintenance, or not worry about batteries freezing, or who simply have money they're ready to spend, then these are now an option which does make sense long-term.
Like I've said before, lithium batteries will probably never cost less than lead-acid straight off the shelf. But because they last 3-4 times as many cycles, they cost less in the long run. If you can pony up the cash, you'll save big over time. In my opinion, E-Z-Go, CC, and Yamaha should be putting lithium batteries in their carts from the factory. It would make life easier for every sparky owner.

Yeah, these lithium batteries cost more than many of the carts out there do, but that just drives the point home further. Not much has changed mechanically on a golf cart in 30 years. Not much goes wrong with them either. The biggest cost is the batteries. If that's where the biggest cost is, then it makes sense to give your batteries high priority.
I am thinking I pointed out already that Lithium DO cost more in the long run. they cost 4 times more then the best golf carts batteries.
Plus you said they will last 10+ years but I do not see many people keeping them 10+ years. people want newer model or a change of model or what ever reason they want to get e newer cart.
you want people to spand 4 times as much you might want to offer 4 times the warrenty.
what I would like to see is like testing meaning, new trojan batteries used for run time, charge time, load
then new lithium batteries used the exact same way run time, charge time and load.
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Unread 06-30-2011, 01:44 PM   #44
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Default Re: What I found out about Trojan?

We should have testing like that by the end of the summer... We're waiting for a new set of these batteries to arrive so we can take them to the E-Z-Go dealer here and they'll be doing all of that testing with them in an RXV.. They said they may try them in the 2Five as well, just to see what kind of range is possible. I can only only control what I have.
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Unread 06-30-2011, 01:58 PM   #45
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Default Re: What I found out about Trojan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wobblez View Post
You might want to check your math.
4 Lithhium = 12 t-1275
4 Lithium with charger = $3176
12 t-1275 = $2400

1 Lithium = 3 T-1275
1 Lithium = $650.00
3 T-1275 = $600.00

Under this Lithiums are still not cheaper.
If I read this wrong point it out to me.
No, that math's wrong. You compared a whole set of lithiums to a single Trojan. So the correct math, in your easy-to-read style would be:

4 Lithium = 48 t-1275 (1 48v set = 12 48v sets... 3x the range times 4x the cycles)
4 Lithium with charger = $3176
48 t-1275 = $9600

1 Lithium = 12 T-1275
1 Lithium = $650.00
12 T-1275 = $2400

Of course, all of this assumes two important things:
#1- that you actually would benefit from having 4-5 hours of pedal time between charges (if not, then you want a 40Ah or 60Ah lithium) AND
#2- that you will actually keep your cart for as long as it takes to rack up 2,000-3,000 cycles, which could be a very long time.

If you're one of those people who can meticulously maintain a lead-acid set and get 8 years out of them, then good for you! You probably don't need/want lithium batteries. But my understanding is that most people are lucky to get 5, and 3-4 is much more common. Some people have trouble getting even 2 years out of 'em. If I were them, I'd bee looking into a worry-free solution.

As for the warranty, I'm assuming you have a pretty good idea of what carts and batteries go through. There's no cost-effective way to track how many cycles have been used from my end, and downright impossible to look at a rturned battery and know if it was abused or not. So we have to deal with a one-size-fits-all solution. Yeah, I wish we could offer a 6-8 year warranty, but it's not practical.
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Unread 06-30-2011, 01:59 PM   #46
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Location: Salt Lake City
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Default Re: What I found out about Trojan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wobblez View Post
You might want to check your math.
4 Lithhium = 12 t-1275
4 Lithium with charger = $3176
12 t-1275 = $2400

1 Lithium = 3 T-1275
1 Lithium = $650.00
3 T-1275 = $600.00

Under this Lithiums are still not cheaper.
If I read this wrong point it out to me.
No, that math's wrong. You compared a whole set of lithiums to a single Trojan. So the correct math, in your easy-to-read style would be:

4 Lithium = 48 t-1275 (1 48v set = 12 48v sets... 3x the range times 4x the cycles)
4 Lithium with charger = $3176
48 t-1275 = $9600

1 Lithium = 12 T-1275
1 Lithium = $650.00
12 T-1275 = $2400

Of course, all of this assumes two important things:
#1- that you actually would benefit from having 4-5 hours of pedal time between charges (if not, then you want a 40Ah or 60Ah lithium) AND
#2- that you will actually keep your cart for as long as it takes to rack up 2,000-3,000 cycles, which could be a very long time.

If you're one of those people who can meticulously maintain a lead-acid set and get 8 years out of them, then good for you! You probably don't need/want lithium batteries. But my understanding is that most people are lucky to get 5, and 3-4 is much more common. Some people have trouble getting even 2 years out of 'em. If I were them, I'd bee looking into a worry-free solution.

As for the warranty, I'm assuming you have a pretty good idea of what carts and batteries go through. There's no cost-effective way to track how many cycles have been used from my end, and downright impossible to look at a returned battery and know if it was abused or not. So we have to deal with a one-size-fits-all solution. Yeah, I wish we could offer a 6-8 year warranty, but it's not practical.
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Unread 06-30-2011, 02:00 PM   #47
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Default Re: What I found out about Trojan?

Sorry, don't know why that posted twice... removal anyone?!?
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Unread 06-30-2011, 02:39 PM   #48
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Default Re: What I found out about Trojan?

I would stay away from 12v batteries all together for golf car applications. I am not speaking brands here, the construction of higher voltage lead/acid batteries does not allow for the construction of thicker, longer lasting (more cycles) reliable plates. There is a decrease in space in a battery of the same size with the addition of cells for more voltage. So the manufacture has to make the plates closer together and thinner to get it all in the same package.
6 volt batteries would be the best for length of run time and life, Then 8 volts and so on. It is all a compromise of what u want/need most. power, run time, and reliability can't have it all!
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Unread 10-08-2013, 10:32 PM   #49
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Default Re: What I found out about Trojan?

i know that this post is a couple of years old, but i was wondering if Lithium Paul or someone else has a web site to check out.
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Unread 10-09-2013, 06:19 AM   #50
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Default Re: What I found out about Trojan?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tkj1 View Post
i know that this post is a couple of years old, but i was wondering if Lithium Paul or someone else has a web site to check out.
... LithiumPaul has not been on forum for over 2 years . . .
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