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Unread 11-14-2010, 11:40 PM   #21
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Default Re: Cable upgrade

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Originally Posted by junkzoo View Post
As a Industrial 'lectrical tech for the last 32+ yrs, i would say if you can get welding cable and can use crimp lugs,that would be the best way to go IMO.

Tinning/soldering lugs on something pulling what carts do, along with bouncing/vibration etc., can tend to give you problems later on IMO. Yes I solder on welding stingers for welders @ work, but IF the lugs we use on carts were anything close to what the screw on connectors for welding stingers are, i might change my opinion.

Luckily i have ummm, access to #4 and #2 welding cable and use a $3500 battery crimping gun prob on a daily basis,(and have/use hyd.crimpers for cable the size of our steering columns) you can guess what my cart will be having soon . Plus the plan is to use die-electric paste on the lug end of the cable b4 i crimp lugs on.(Just enuf to coat the bare cable lightly, not really for conductivity, more for corrosion resistance in the future .)

I work with upwards of 138,000K volts @ work (we take incoming powerline stuff, 13.8v's and xformer it up to use in molten steel proccessing/increasing temps of same ) and other than stinger leads and our Instrument guys working on >110 volt stuff, most everything else we use is crimped on termination. Think of it as being held tightly in the splice/lug, vs. something just soldered on to hold things.

Our screw connect ends are close ended, meaning we hold one open end up in a vise,flux both the connector and the bare end of the cable,melt solder in the connector (about 1/2 way full ) insert the bare end on the weld cable and cool it. Think of that being encased in solder and not just "soldered " on.

IF i was to locate those same kind of lugs for my cart, then i would probably go that route instead of a crimp lug.


I'm in no way saying one way is wrong and one way is right, just wanted to share a lil on what i know and have worked with over the years.Trust me, i have no desire to fix anything I made or repaired, either within a short time after the initial time,or in the middle of the night and/or outside in -10 degs temps, so we all have learned what works the best for us @work.

FWIW: we had a Taylor Dunn and some ex-mine use buggy/cart(forget the the brand name), both batt.carts,and shortly after having them in service we replaced ALL the cables on both of them,since the factory connections did not last long.Those cables lasted for 2 batt. set changes,and on the "heavier than a car" mining buggy, they looked like new after we had to scrap what was left of the buggy after 15 yrs.
I was initially confused reading all of that highly technical stuff that dances around what we are talking about. Almost like an Electrical Engineer had joined the conversation.... But I finally found the heart of your statement. I highlighted those 2 sentences in red
I looks like you agree that a properly soldered connection is more suited to this application also.
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Unread 11-14-2010, 11:42 PM   #22
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Default Re: Cable upgrade

LOL,, sorry, just a Mill Rat spark chaser here

and ditto on the properly soldered connection
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Unread 11-15-2010, 12:03 AM   #23
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Default Re: Cable upgrade

Actually I'm not against crimping.... I have used both successfully. Any properly made connection with dielectric grease will serve the purpose. I just prefer the solid connections. I have yet to see one fail. I have seen some crimp connections that make me shake my head. Then again we have seen some cold solder joints too

I learned my soldering technique on copper pipe. When you can fit, prep, & solder a couple of hundred joints at a time and not have a single failure, you got your methods down.... it is about cleanliness & temperature & fit.
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Unread 11-15-2010, 12:34 PM   #24
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Default Re: Cable upgrade

The real reason fine count wire is use in High amperage situations is it's ability to carry more amps. AMPS flow on the outside diameter of a strand of wire. The more strands and better quality the more amperage it can carry.
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Unread 11-16-2010, 12:25 AM   #25
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Default Re: Cable upgrade

You guys are inventing stuff. More strands = more flexibility. Are you saying a solid 1" line of copper would flow less and thus heat up more then a stranded 1" line? That is horse hooey!
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Unread 12-07-2010, 09:51 AM   #26
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Default Re: Cable upgrade

More surface area means more conductivity. The higher strand count has more surface area thus less resistance.
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Unread 12-07-2010, 09:59 AM   #27
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Default Re: Cable upgrade

Also, equally important is heat dissipation.
A solid bar has great mass and little surface area. Surface area is where heat leaves an object. Heat build up reduces conductivity.

Horse Hooey? I think we can start calling you MR POO
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Unread 12-07-2010, 10:07 AM   #28
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Default Re: Cable upgrade

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Horse Hooey? I think we can start calling you MR POO
Yeah, but will he be able to see it?
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Unread 12-07-2010, 03:33 PM   #29
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Default Re: Cable upgrade

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The real reason fine count wire is use in High amperage situations is it's ability to carry more amps. AMPS flow on the outside diameter of a strand of wire. The more strands and better quality the more amperage it can carry.
skin effect only applies to AC. unless you are running brushless, this phenomena does not apply.
-sj
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Unread 12-07-2010, 04:35 PM   #30
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Default Re: Cable upgrade

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Originally Posted by scottyb View Post
Also, equally important is heat dissipation.
A solid bar has great mass and little surface area. Surface area is where heat leaves an object. Heat build up reduces conductivity.

Horse Hooey? I think we can start calling you MR POO


I am sure you know this but it's very important not to cut an indention or ring into the copper when trimming insulation from wire. This will create a major hot spot and could do some major damage.
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