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Unread 06-05-2012, 09:53 PM   #21
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Default Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?

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Originally Posted by sonicj View Post
I would have to respectfully disagree here... The V-Glide can be configured 5k-0 or 0-5k by swapping the terminations at one or two wires. The 1204-410 has no problem operating at 36V.
-sj
Not exactly true.... The 0-5K Setup was a "2-wire" configuration. The 5K-0 setup was a "3-Wire" configuration. They work a little bit differently. If you got the throttle situation resolved, yes it will work, but only on a fully charged 36 Volt battery pack, but as soon as they start to discharge just the slightest little bit you're going to run into an undervoltage issue in that controller. It wants to stay within the range specified on the controller, a partially discharged 36V battery pack won't be in that range. Undervoltage is terrible for a controller.
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Unread 06-06-2012, 12:44 AM   #22
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Default Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?

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Originally Posted by TahoeDawgZ71 View Post
Not exactly true.... The 0-5K Setup was a "2-wire" configuration. The 5K-0 setup was a "3-Wire" configuration. They work a little bit differently. If you got the throttle situation resolved, yes it will work, but only on a fully charged 36 Volt battery pack, but as soon as they start to discharge just the slightest little bit you're going to run into an undervoltage issue in that controller. It wants to stay within the range specified on the controller, a partially discharged 36V battery pack won't be in that range. Undervoltage is terrible for a controller.
The way they work is the same (potential divider). A "2-wire" configuration just moves the "3rd wire" inside the controller. Yes, it would require adding a wire, but aside from, that the V-Glide hardware is compatible. (Half speed reverse is a little different and might require a different micro switch if you wanted to keep it)

The Curtis 1204-4xx is listed as a 36V-48V controller. "Undervoltage cutback" doesn't occur unless the pack drops below 21V. Even at 21V, it cuts back on the PWM duty cycle to protect the batteries, not itself. A low 36V pack will not hurt the controller.
-sj

(Illustration shows converting 3wire from 5-0K to 0-5k or vice versa. 2wire output swap would just be a matter of swapping the non-wiper wire to the post at the other end of the resistor string. Converting a "2wire" to "3wire" adds a wire to ground at the empty end of the resistor string.)
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Unread 06-06-2012, 07:33 AM   #23
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Default Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?

. . . Bruce? . . . .
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Unread 06-06-2012, 08:49 AM   #24
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Default Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicj View Post
The way they work is the same (potential divider). A "2-wire" configuration just moves the "3rd wire" inside the controller. Yes, it would require adding a wire, but aside from, that the V-Glide hardware is compatible. (Half speed reverse is a little different and might require a different micro switch if you wanted to keep it)

The Curtis 1204-4xx is listed as a 36V-48V controller. "Undervoltage cutback" doesn't occur unless the pack drops below 21V. Even at 21V, it cuts back on the PWM duty cycle to protect the batteries, not itself. A low 36V pack will not hurt the controller.
-sj

(Illustration shows converting 3wire from 5-0K to 0-5k or vice versa. 2wire output swap would just be a matter of swapping the non-wiper wire to the post at the other end of the resistor string. Converting a "2wire" to "3wire" adds a wire to ground at the empty end of the resistor string.)
I agree with the V-glide and 2 to 3 wire conversion theory. That's fine. But as far as the car running normally with the other controller in it I completely disagree, But try it if you wish... Makes you wonder why they changed controllers when they created the 48 volt car if the one they had would have worked just fine. The controller only puts out 225 amps at 48 volts. What do you think it's gonna do at 36? Seems like a whole lot of converting to do for less performance than OEM.
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Unread 06-06-2012, 11:58 AM   #25
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Default Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?

I read this and got confused


Quote:
Originally Posted by TahoeDawgZ71 View Post
I agree with the V-glide and 2 to 3 wire conversion theory. That's fine. But as far as the car running normally with the other controller in it I completely disagree, But try it if you wish...


Makes you wonder why they changed controllers when they created the 48 volt car if the one they had would have worked just fine.
Don't they have 4 different regen controllers and arn't they using two now?




The controller only puts out 225 amps at 48 volts.
What do you think it's gonna do at 36? Seems like a whole lot of converting to do for less performance than OEM.
Are you saying that this controller will put out less amps if you drop the voltage to 36 volts
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Unread 06-06-2012, 12:55 PM   #26
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Default Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?

Yes there are several different regen controllers. 5 actually. A Regen1, a Regen2, an IQ, an IQ Plus, and an Excel. But this is irrelevant to this post as this car is a series car. As far as the amperage is concerned, I can't answer that post for sure because I've never tried this, however I would assume based on my experience that it would have a significantly weaker output running less voltage. I may be wrong and I'll admit it if I'm proven wrong, but there's several factors here telling me no it's not going to work properly. Another one that just entered my head is as follows... About the throttle control. Basically what it's doing is sending voltage into the V-Glide switch from the controller, adjusting it by the use of resistors inside the V-glide case, and sending the modified signal back to the controller. A 1210-410 controller is going to expect a modified 48V throttle to be put back into it. Ohms are ohms, it doesn't matter what it is, but those ohms reduce voltage by resistance. My point is, 5000 ohms of resistance on a 36V input will result in a weaker throttle output than it would on a 48V input. But try it and see. I'm anxious to see how it turns out.
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Unread 06-06-2012, 06:42 PM   #27
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Default Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?

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. . . Bruce? . . . .
you got a problem ??
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Unread 06-06-2012, 09:49 PM   #28
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Default Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?

One more thing I just noticed, might be another clue.

Ususally, when pushing the accelerator (F or R), it actually does start to move, ever so slightly. I mean you have to listen and pay attention or you would hardly notice, but that kind of tells me everything is engaging (or at least trying too).

To better explain how I ususally get this to work. When I push the accelerator and it will not go. I slowly push it until I hear the solenoild click and I get that little effort to move, if it doesn't, I back off and keep doing the same thing. Eventually, as I slowly push the pedal it take off like normal.

The other item worth mentioning. When it doesn't move, and you keep pushing the accelerator, if you push it too fast, it sometimes it will 'catch' and surge forward fast just a bit then stop again.

I don't know if that helps any, this is very strange problem. I have NEVER been stuck in this thing yet! But I sat there for 2-3 minutes before pushing the pedal wondering if was ever go!

Thanks again for all of the help
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Unread 06-07-2012, 09:49 AM   #29
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Default Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?

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Originally Posted by TahoeDawgZ71 View Post
Another one that just entered my head is as follows... About the throttle control. Basically what it's doing is sending voltage into the V-Glide switch from the controller, adjusting it by the use of resistors inside the V-glide case, and sending the modified signal back to the controller. A 1210-410 controller is going to expect a modified 48V throttle to be put back into it. Ohms are ohms, it doesn't matter what it is, but those ohms reduce voltage by resistance. My point is, 5000 ohms of resistance on a 36V input will result in a weaker throttle output than it would on a 48V input. But try it and see. I'm anxious to see how it turns out.
The controller doesn't use +48V as a reference for throttle input. I'm not sure what it uses; it could be B+ or a fixed internal reference, idk, but its definitely not a high fixed value as you are suggesting.

This is easy to confirm on a scope. The throttle pot on a 1204-410 was set to give a 75% duty cycle at 48V. Lowering the input voltage to 36V without disturbing the pot gives the same 75.3% duty cycle.
-sj
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File Type: png 36v.png (28.1 KB, 0 views)
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Unread 06-07-2012, 12:55 PM   #30
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Default Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?

I don't have a scope. I don't have anything more than a multimeter. Therefore, I turn this thread over to Sonicj so I can watch and learn. I clearly don't know what I'm talking about. It's all yours man. I've given my opinions, use them if you'd like.
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