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-   -   Club Cart motor/other problem? (http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/electric-club-car/64527-club-cart-motor-other-problem.html)

jrwpmw 05-20-2012 11:10 AM

Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
We got an older club cart 70s/80s from a neighbor. It had been in storage for years. I cleaned it up, cleaned the electrical connections, lubed, got new batteries, etc. Seemed to run fine at first. Now you have to push the pedal slowing or it will not go. Even then somtimes it will not go in forward or reverse, you just have to keep slowing pushing the pedal and eventually it will go. You can hear the solenoid (or electric motor/switch) clicking each time you touch the pedal.

I am pretty handy, but don't know much about electric golf carts.

Does anybody know what this problem could be? How I might be able to fix it?

Thanks very much!

shadowman 05-20-2012 11:28 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
how many solenoids?....................................8)

jrwpmw 05-20-2012 03:28 PM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowman (Post 728312)
how many solenoids?....................................8)

That is a great question, how can i tell? I don't hava manual or any info on this cart? Thanks

shadowman 05-20-2012 05:35 PM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
if it dosn,t have 3 pedals i beleive it would have to be an 80,s cart and should have 5 solenoids........the only way if you don,t have any of the manuals for the cart is to lift seat and look............will be a row of them 4 have coils mounted to the tops.................................8)

jrwpmw 05-29-2012 08:34 PM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
OK, I took some time this weekend and dug into this cart a bit more.

Serial Number = A9230 291972 (assume that means 1992 model)?
Motor Serial Number = 1012191
DC Controller = 1204-015

Now I looked for solenoids, but I really only see one from what I can tell?

In any case, at least I now have some more info.

The problem is the same, if you push the pedal too fast - no go. Push slowly and "usually" it will start to go and be fine until stopped again. I can hear a click everytime I hit the pedal, just sometimes it goes and other times you have to keep trying.

Any idea what that might be on this make/model?

Thanks again for your help

jrwpmw 06-01-2012 06:57 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
Bump and update.

I have cleaned all of the connectors. Confirmed the solenoid is good by jumping the two big posts and pushing the accelerator.

Cleaned and verified (the best I could) both the F/R and wiper switches.

Still no luck. Really strange, while working on this last night, I was able to get it to go in drive/forward 3 times in a row, then not again.

Here's a little more detail on what's happening:
1 Key on.
2 Moved to F (and R, buzzer works on R)
3 Slowly pushed accelerator pedal.
4 With cover off the wiper switch, I can see the micro-switch in there click when the wiper arm reaches the second copper square. The wiper arm starts at the farthest right spot and moves to the farthest left spot when the accelerator is fully pushed (seems to be adjusted right)?
5 The solenoid clicks right about the time the microswitch in the wiper arm does.
6 NOTHING HAPPENS! OR if you very slowly push the pedal (over and over) it may just start to go, and will run until you stop. Then same problem again.

I don't know what to do next? I really appreciate any advice you can give? Any idea what the problem is? How to troubleshoot further?

Thank you!

TahoeDawgZ71 06-01-2012 08:36 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
Replace the master solenoid. It's the one closest to the driver's side. It's the only solenoid that will kill operation in every speed. The others will only kill their designated speed when they fail.

scottyb 06-01-2012 08:50 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
I think he said single solenoid cart?
Still it could be resistor coil or controller cart in 1992, right?
It would sure help if we could at least identify which drive system the person is asking about?
It is hard to do this without a test meter, there may be an intermittent micro switch on the F&R (or in the V-glide, again which drive system?) .... We need more concrete information before we can help.

Stevegrmich 06-01-2012 09:06 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
. . he said it has a 1204 controller . . . Curtis??

TahoeDawgZ71 06-01-2012 09:18 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
you guys are right I missed that part.

Change of story here..

If the clicking you're hearing every time you push the pedal is indeed the solenoid and not a micro switch I'd say the micro switches work for sure. If they didn't, the solenoid wouldn't click every time. I'm leaning towards the possibility of a bad solenoid. Just because they click every time doesn't mean they work every time. I'd replace it. As for the drive system. It's a 92, it shouldn't have a controller. The controller cars were only available in 93-94. It's been converted at some point. Whether it's a factory style configuration it's hard to say, but regardless, the solenoid theory stays the same. Try laying a hammer across the two large posts of the solenoid. This basically bypasses the solenoid. See if it'll run everytime you give it throttle while the hammer is there. Be very careful not to touch either of the small posts with the hammer as this will cause a direct short if you're not careful and will create an arc. If it performs like it should, replace the solenoid.

jrwpmw 06-01-2012 09:29 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
Yes single solenoid cart.
A picture is worth a thousand words.
Can you see the pictures I attached?
Again, I really want to thank you all for the help.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79806152@N03/7314464878/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79806152@N03/7314458810/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79806152@N03/7314461246/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/79806152@N03/7314589490/

TahoeDawgZ71 06-01-2012 09:31 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
Yes I see the pictures. Try my suggestion and post your results

jrwpmw 06-01-2012 10:00 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TahoeDawgZ71 (Post 733361)
Yes I see the pictures. Try my suggestion and post your results

Yes, I tried the solenoid thing (did it again just to be sure). Same results, I guess I at least know the solenoid is good! I also had a short battery cable wire, I actually attached that to both solenoid posts just to make sure I had good contact.

jrwpmw 06-04-2012 08:02 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
Just another update.

This weekend...

Took the F/W off, disassembeled cleaned and reinstalled (copper bars were really greasy, etc.). No luck fixing the problem.

Took off the wiper switch, dissassebled, cleaned and reinstalled. Found a loose wire and replaced, was hoping that was the issue but no luck.

Use the cart over the weekend. Strange, but seems a little better (probably just my wishful thinking). Also found that, it seems like when you can't get it going that if you get it rolling and hit the accellerator that it takes off. Not 100% sure about that, twice that it didn't move, tried that and it worked.

In any case, I am not fairly confident that the F/W and wiper switch are not the problems.

Since when it does move, it seems to run fine (maybe a little weak on power when going up a big hill, but it is an old 36v cart). So, I think the motor is fine.

The soleniod also seems fine, tested it by jumping the two big posts.

I am now starting to think it's the controller? The box up under the back, passenger side. It has all of the cables running to/from it. If it's not a controller, it's some type of power unit (most of the wires run to/from it).

So a question for everyone, could the controller be the problem? (if it's not a controller, what is that on this year cart)? If I took it off, can it be dissasebled and cleaned like the F/W switch and wiper switch? Of it is more electronic on the inside rather than mechanical?

Thanks again,

jrwpmw 06-04-2012 08:26 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
P.S.

I have a Curtis PMC 1204-015 (24-36v, 275 current) controller.

Would a Curtis PMC 1204-410 (36-48v, 225 current) controller work?

I found a used one, looks the same (off of a 2000 Club Car, mine is a 1992). The big difference seems to be in current (275 mine, 225 new one).

Thanks, and if you know where I can get a used/rebuit contoler please let me know. I am not sure that is the problem yet, but it's starting to look that way!

TahoeDawgZ71 06-04-2012 02:15 PM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
Yes the controller could be the problem, however the controller you listed will not work. It's setup for an opposite throttle input and it's for a 48V car on top of that. Definitely not compatible.

jrwpmw 06-05-2012 08:28 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
Thanks!

It was also mentioned that the brushes could be bad on the motor. Can they be easily replace? Since I do have the problem narrowed down (at least I hope)! If I had to pick one, should I go for the controller or brushes in the motor?

shadowman 06-05-2012 10:28 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
David do you think that controller would act up like that? i know its possible but those 1204,s are pretty tough and most cases when they act up they just go kaputt..............something tells me this is just a simple thing going bad intermittant like solenoid or microswitch but then again its a golfcart so it may be a flat tire.............lolol....................well sooner or later were going to find out ..................these intermittant problems are always the brain biters.....................................8)

TahoeDawgZ71 06-05-2012 10:39 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
You're right those 1204 controllers are very tough. But it's possible. I've seen this issue, but very VERY rarely. Do a continuity test on the motor. A1 to A2 should have it. S1 to S2 should have it. Be sure to unhook motor wires when doing this test. You dont want continuity between any of the 4 posts and the base of the motor or continuity between any A and S posts. Be sure to rotate motor one full revolution while checking to check for constant continuity throughout the whole range.

sonicj 06-05-2012 02:56 PM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by TahoeDawgZ71 (Post 734357)
Yes the controller could be the problem, however the controller you listed will not work. It's setup for an opposite throttle input and it's for a 48V car on top of that. Definitely not compatible.

I would have to respectfully disagree here... The V-Glide can be configured 5k-0 or 0-5k by swapping the terminations at one or two wires. The 1204-410 has no problem operating at 36V.
-sj

TahoeDawgZ71 06-05-2012 08:53 PM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sonicj (Post 734870)
I would have to respectfully disagree here... The V-Glide can be configured 5k-0 or 0-5k by swapping the terminations at one or two wires. The 1204-410 has no problem operating at 36V.
-sj

Not exactly true.... The 0-5K Setup was a "2-wire" configuration. The 5K-0 setup was a "3-Wire" configuration. They work a little bit differently. If you got the throttle situation resolved, yes it will work, but only on a fully charged 36 Volt battery pack, but as soon as they start to discharge just the slightest little bit you're going to run into an undervoltage issue in that controller. It wants to stay within the range specified on the controller, a partially discharged 36V battery pack won't be in that range. Undervoltage is terrible for a controller.

sonicj 06-05-2012 11:44 PM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by TahoeDawgZ71 (Post 735013)
Not exactly true.... The 0-5K Setup was a "2-wire" configuration. The 5K-0 setup was a "3-Wire" configuration. They work a little bit differently. If you got the throttle situation resolved, yes it will work, but only on a fully charged 36 Volt battery pack, but as soon as they start to discharge just the slightest little bit you're going to run into an undervoltage issue in that controller. It wants to stay within the range specified on the controller, a partially discharged 36V battery pack won't be in that range. Undervoltage is terrible for a controller.

The way they work is the same (potential divider). A "2-wire" configuration just moves the "3rd wire" inside the controller. Yes, it would require adding a wire, but aside from, that the V-Glide hardware is compatible. (Half speed reverse is a little different and might require a different micro switch if you wanted to keep it)

The Curtis 1204-4xx is listed as a 36V-48V controller. "Undervoltage cutback" doesn't occur unless the pack drops below 21V. Even at 21V, it cuts back on the PWM duty cycle to protect the batteries, not itself. A low 36V pack will not hurt the controller.
-sj

(Illustration shows converting 3wire from 5-0K to 0-5k or vice versa. 2wire output swap would just be a matter of swapping the non-wiper wire to the post at the other end of the resistor string. Converting a "2wire" to "3wire" adds a wire to ground at the empty end of the resistor string.)

Stevegrmich 06-06-2012 06:33 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
. . . Bruce? . . . . :lhmo:

TahoeDawgZ71 06-06-2012 07:49 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sonicj (Post 735084)
The way they work is the same (potential divider). A "2-wire" configuration just moves the "3rd wire" inside the controller. Yes, it would require adding a wire, but aside from, that the V-Glide hardware is compatible. (Half speed reverse is a little different and might require a different micro switch if you wanted to keep it)

The Curtis 1204-4xx is listed as a 36V-48V controller. "Undervoltage cutback" doesn't occur unless the pack drops below 21V. Even at 21V, it cuts back on the PWM duty cycle to protect the batteries, not itself. A low 36V pack will not hurt the controller.
-sj

(Illustration shows converting 3wire from 5-0K to 0-5k or vice versa. 2wire output swap would just be a matter of swapping the non-wiper wire to the post at the other end of the resistor string. Converting a "2wire" to "3wire" adds a wire to ground at the empty end of the resistor string.)

I agree with the V-glide and 2 to 3 wire conversion theory. That's fine. But as far as the car running normally with the other controller in it I completely disagree, But try it if you wish... Makes you wonder why they changed controllers when they created the 48 volt car if the one they had would have worked just fine. The controller only puts out 225 amps at 48 volts. What do you think it's gonna do at 36? Seems like a whole lot of converting to do for less performance than OEM.

lowvolts 06-06-2012 10:58 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
I read this and got confused


Quote:

Originally Posted by TahoeDawgZ71 (Post 735151)
I agree with the V-glide and 2 to 3 wire conversion theory. That's fine. But as far as the car running normally with the other controller in it I completely disagree, But try it if you wish...


Makes you wonder why they changed controllers when they created the 48 volt car if the one they had would have worked just fine.
Don't they have 4 different regen controllers and arn't they using two now?




The controller only puts out 225 amps at 48 volts.
What do you think it's gonna do at 36? Seems like a whole lot of converting to do for less performance than OEM.

Are you saying that this controller will put out less amps if you drop the voltage to 36 volts

TahoeDawgZ71 06-06-2012 11:55 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
Yes there are several different regen controllers. 5 actually. A Regen1, a Regen2, an IQ, an IQ Plus, and an Excel. But this is irrelevant to this post as this car is a series car. As far as the amperage is concerned, I can't answer that post for sure because I've never tried this, however I would assume based on my experience that it would have a significantly weaker output running less voltage. I may be wrong and I'll admit it if I'm proven wrong, but there's several factors here telling me no it's not going to work properly. Another one that just entered my head is as follows... About the throttle control. Basically what it's doing is sending voltage into the V-Glide switch from the controller, adjusting it by the use of resistors inside the V-glide case, and sending the modified signal back to the controller. A 1210-410 controller is going to expect a modified 48V throttle to be put back into it. Ohms are ohms, it doesn't matter what it is, but those ohms reduce voltage by resistance. My point is, 5000 ohms of resistance on a 36V input will result in a weaker throttle output than it would on a 48V input. But try it and see. I'm anxious to see how it turns out.

ForBruce 06-06-2012 05:42 PM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevegrmich (Post 735125)
. . . Bruce? . . . . :lhmo:

you got a problem ??

jrwpmw 06-06-2012 08:49 PM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
One more thing I just noticed, might be another clue.

Ususally, when pushing the accelerator (F or R), it actually does start to move, ever so slightly. I mean you have to listen and pay attention or you would hardly notice, but that kind of tells me everything is engaging (or at least trying too).

To better explain how I ususally get this to work. When I push the accelerator and it will not go. I slowly push it until I hear the solenoild click and I get that little effort to move, if it doesn't, I back off and keep doing the same thing. Eventually, as I slowly push the pedal it take off like normal.

The other item worth mentioning. When it doesn't move, and you keep pushing the accelerator, if you push it too fast, it sometimes it will 'catch' and surge forward fast just a bit then stop again.

I don't know if that helps any, this is very strange problem. I have NEVER been stuck in this thing yet! But I sat there for 2-3 minutes before pushing the pedal wondering if was ever go!

Thanks again for all of the help

sonicj 06-07-2012 08:49 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by TahoeDawgZ71 (Post 735221)
Another one that just entered my head is as follows... About the throttle control. Basically what it's doing is sending voltage into the V-Glide switch from the controller, adjusting it by the use of resistors inside the V-glide case, and sending the modified signal back to the controller. A 1210-410 controller is going to expect a modified 48V throttle to be put back into it. Ohms are ohms, it doesn't matter what it is, but those ohms reduce voltage by resistance. My point is, 5000 ohms of resistance on a 36V input will result in a weaker throttle output than it would on a 48V input. But try it and see. I'm anxious to see how it turns out.

The controller doesn't use +48V as a reference for throttle input. I'm not sure what it uses; it could be B+ or a fixed internal reference, idk, but its definitely not a high fixed value as you are suggesting.

This is easy to confirm on a scope. The throttle pot on a 1204-410 was set to give a 75% duty cycle at 48V. Lowering the input voltage to 36V without disturbing the pot gives the same 75.3% duty cycle.
-sj

TahoeDawgZ71 06-07-2012 11:55 AM

Re: Club Cart motor/other problem?
 
I don't have a scope. I don't have anything more than a multimeter. Therefore, I turn this thread over to Sonicj so I can watch and learn. I clearly don't know what I'm talking about. It's all yours man. I've given my opinions, use them if you'd like.


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