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Electric Club Car Electric DS, and Precedent golf cars



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Unread 03-10-2013, 03:18 PM   #1
Getting Wild
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Default Bandit, Executioner, Bandit, Executioner...

Going back and forth here with value on a new motor. That's right VALUE. I've got the 06 Precedent with 1 yr. old pack of Trojan batteries broken in properly, 6" Allsport lift, 23" tires, 500amp Alltrax, HD Solenoid, 2g wires and am thinking MOTOR. Torque is fine, it billy goats up hills in the woods just fine, snaps off the line like a rocket but tops out at 18mph or so (boooo!)
then drops to 13mph on the hills in our community. (they're pretty steep in some areas) I can ramble as high as 27mph (yesterday - new high) down hill but it always stabilizes around 18-20mph. I'd love 30mph and 20+ on hills? but the Executioner is gonna be $600 or so? Yeesh!

But I go back and forth with the value question...

A Bandit for $300 roughly gets me to 25mph and I'm guessing 16-17mph on the hills? Maybe I ramble down hill and sniff 30 for a few seconds?
But I'm guessing I'm going to stabilize around 24-25mph with my set up. So I'm gaining around 5mph cruizing speed from my stock motor? These are guesses here.

The Executioner is twice the money but I gain another 5 mph over the Bandit?
So maybe I can stabilize cruising speed around 29-30mph? and maybe do 20mph up the grades?

I'm just asking these question out loud because you guys/gals have real world experience and I'm not crazy about dropping another huge chunk of money only to find out I was guessing wrong.

Are these guesses pretty accurate or am I missing something or several somethings in this thought process? I guess this is a round about way of saying I don't know what to do and hoping someone can say "I have this and I got that" and I can see a pattern to it all and guestimate that if eveything is similar on the carts I should expect to see similar results.

Thanks for your reply in advance. Gotta love this forum!!! (and Carting!)
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Unread 03-11-2013, 04:09 AM   #2
haveacupofshutthe****up
 
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Default Re: Bandit, Executioner, Bandit, Executioner...

Club, I'm sure they are both good motors, but the Executioner is not quite twice the price. You have to send in your old working motor to get a higher performance "Bandit" replacement. You could easily sell your old motor for a couple of hundred bucks and apply that to your "Executioner"!
But, I get your point

Also, I'm not sure you are gonna get 20 mph uphill with an Executioner, although it depends on the grade of the hill. The speed/torque ratio applies here. Robby @ PQ told me that I will gain approx. 20% more torque with the Executioner and that is just about what it feels like, however it does slow down on hills. It is a "high speed" motor and is designed for flat and level driving and that is how it should be utilized.

Just how big are your hills? This is very important for proper motor selection.

Steve
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Unread 03-11-2013, 09:39 AM   #3
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Default Re: Bandit, Executioner, Bandit, Executioner...

I run 30mph with a stock controller with the Executioner. 20ish up hill. No lift, but 12" LoPro Wheels. I love it. Wish I had a 500 amp controller for harder pull off the line, though.
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Unread 03-11-2013, 11:09 AM   #4
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Default Re: Bandit, Executioner, Bandit, Executioner...

Good to know AbsolutYak.

Steve, the hills around here are pretty steep. I'd say MORE than 6% grades in our neighborhood for sure. It's a golfing community in the Sierra Nevada foothills covered in oaks. I don't golf but I love carting and it's legal everywhere in the community. The overwhelming majority of residents use carts instead of cars to get around. Every time we go out, whether to the store or the ball park for games, etc. we encounter significant hills that bring us down to 13mph from 20ish mph. And 13 feels SLOOOOW. I don't have to hit 30mph actually because the limit is 25 mph everywhere. In fact, I could live with a strong 25 mph if I could hold 20 mph on the steep hills. But ya, they are pretty steep. BTW, got the return. Thanks!

With the programmable Alltrax, at least I can tweak the throttle curve with whatever I get. Are you thinking the bandit is more torque oriented? I guess it's time to call PQ...

Thanks guys!
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Unread 03-12-2013, 01:46 PM   #5
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Default Re: Bandit, Executioner, Bandit, Executioner...

I had the Bandit in my DS and it always left me wanting just a bit more. It was a great, great improvement over stock but once you start going faster your not gonna want to stop. Spend the money on the Executioner and never look back
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Unread 03-12-2013, 02:45 PM   #6
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Default Re: Bandit, Executioner, Bandit, Executioner...

Quote:
Originally Posted by 7CLUB View Post
Good to know AbsolutYak.

Steve, the hills around here are pretty steep. I'd say MORE than 6% grades in our neighborhood for sure. It's a golfing community in the Sierra Nevada foothills covered in oaks. I don't golf but I love carting and it's legal everywhere in the community. The overwhelming majority of residents use carts instead of cars to get around. Every time we go out, whether to the store or the ball park for games, etc. we encounter significant hills that bring us down to 13mph from 20ish mph. And 13 feels SLOOOOW. I don't have to hit 30mph actually because the limit is 25 mph everywhere. In fact, I could live with a strong 25 mph if I could hold 20 mph on the steep hills. But ya, they are pretty steep. BTW, got the return. Thanks!

With the programmable Alltrax, at least I can tweak the throttle curve with whatever I get. Are you thinking the bandit is more torque oriented? I guess it's time to call PQ...

Thanks guys!
You should talk to PQ as they are the experts and know just what their motors ae capable of.
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Unread 03-12-2013, 06:55 PM   #7
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Default Re: Bandit, Executioner, Bandit, Executioner...

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Originally Posted by Stevec3201 View Post
You should talk to PQ as they are the experts and know just what their motors ae capable of.
Ya, now if I could just get through... Busy signal all day!
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Unread 03-12-2013, 09:00 PM   #8
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Default Re: Bandit, Executioner, Bandit, Executioner...

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Originally Posted by 7CLUB View Post
Ya, now if I could just get through... Busy signal all day!

Stock motor with Alltrax controller and no regen braking? If so, and your running 23" tall tires and speed only gets to 20 mph on flat ground. Code 4 and stock controller with stock height tires (18.5" tall) should get you to 19 mph.........so, with 4" taller tires and your only getting 20 mph? I would do a running voltage drop test across your battery pack......... your pack might be maxed out, because it's taking a big voltage drop due to a tall tire and can't recover the voltage to keep pushing the rpms. Every cart is different, but when your looking at performance.......#1 Battery pack, #2 mcor at 100% without these two, your just spending money. You might have already posted or checked these things.........if not I would do this first. Hope this helps....
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Unread 03-13-2013, 05:42 PM   #9
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Default Re: Bandit, Executioner, Bandit, Executioner...

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Originally Posted by PLUMQUICK View Post
Stock motor with Alltrax controller and no regen braking? If so, and your running 23" tall tires and speed only gets to 20 mph on flat ground. Code 4 and stock controller with stock height tires (18.5" tall) should get you to 19 mph.........so, with 4" taller tires and your only getting 20 mph? I would do a running voltage drop test across your battery pack......... your pack might be maxed out, because it's taking a big voltage drop due to a tall tire and can't recover the voltage to keep pushing the rpms. Every cart is different, but when your looking at performance.......#1 Battery pack, #2 mcor at 100% without these two, your just spending money. You might have already posted or checked these things.........if not I would do this first. Hope this helps....
First, BOTH speeds are WITH the same tires. I haven't changed tires recently. I was running about 18mph with these 23's and with the new Alltrax controller I'm hitting about 20mph. So I've gained about 2mph and some decent torque gains. I tested the mcor the other day. It's good. The batteries are Trojan's. Just 15 months old. Broken in by never disharging beyond 49.5v for the first 50 runs and rarely discharged below 49v since. Just recently after Scottyb said I could go as far as 48.2v discharge, I've done that maybe 3 times. STarting voltage after settling is about 51.5v I'm not sure what you mean by the pack "might be maxed out". It sustains the top speed of about 20mph right now, as long as I want to sustain it. What am I not getting?

Any clue HOW to do a "running voltage drop test"? I have a state of charge meter that reads multiple pack voltage readings per second from Scotty b. It usually is in the 46v range when driving full throttle at these speeds I think. I haven't studied that guage as I drive but I can. What am I looking for?

I didn't think I was having a problem, just looking for more speed (maybe 25+) and more speed MAINTAINED on hills as I drop from my 20mph to around 13mph.

Thanks for the message!
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Unread 03-13-2013, 10:36 PM   #10
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Default Re: Bandit, Executioner, Bandit, Executioner...

What PQ is saying is: Something is not right. You should be getting more than a 2 mph gain vs. stock controller on code 4 with 18.5" tires. He is telling you to make sure all of your batteries are perfect. You can load test them on an individual basis with a meter. See if one is not up to par. He also said not all carts are the same. If your batteries check out and your controller is pushing 500 amps with all regen off then I bet a simple motor replacement will solve all your problems. However, your area has steep hills, so talk to someone about a motor for speed and torque. Just understand, you can't have it both ways with only 500 amps. You may expect to hit around 24+ on the flat and 18+ on hills with a speed/torque motor. Just my 2C.
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