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Unread 02-09-2014, 10:23 PM   #11
Not Yet Wild
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Default Re: CC DS 4-12v to 6-8v conversion

The important part being left off here is the On Board Computer. I don't see it in the materials needed list. An incorrect OBC is going to limit your battery life when you make this switch. You are wasting your money doing this if your goal is to get longer battery life. The algorithm in the OBC is going to be wrong and not charge your newly installed 8v batteries properly. Another question to ask is whether you have the correct charger for the application.
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Unread 02-09-2014, 11:17 PM   #12
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Default Re: CC DS 4-12v to 6-8v conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by bradsgolfcars View Post
The important part being left off here is the On Board Computer. I don't see it in the materials needed list. An incorrect OBC is going to limit your battery life when you make this switch. You are wasting your money doing this if your goal is to get longer battery life. The algorithm in the OBC is going to be wrong and not charge your newly installed 8v batteries properly. Another question to ask is whether you have the correct charger for the application.
Here is a quote from the other conversion sticky. I thought all CC Powerdrive chargers were 48v, regardless of the battery configuration?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Canine_Rescue_Pilot View Post
Did I change my OBC?
No. Here’s why, and it’s a long story so hang on...

The dealers will tell you that anything less than version 5.0 is really designed for the 4-12V pack setup and will cause charging problems.

The amateur builders (I’m one of them) will say that 48 volts is 48 volts, it still has the same number of cells.

We’re both wrong - sort of. True, 48 volts is 48 volts, and the batteries still have the same number of cells, BUT the cells have a larger plate area and are capable of a bit more energy storage (hence the higher amp-hour rating). As for the rest of the "sort of" - read on.

It took me close to two weeks of contacting different people at Ingersoll Rand, I was honest during each call explaining my background and looking for information. To make a long story short I was finally put in touch with a programmer that works on the team which supports the code in the OBC eeprom. Persistence pays off. Here was the bottom line...

(some of it maybe you knew, some of it maybe you didn’t)
His story:
The OBC controls the charge rate of the battery pack both with the PowerDrive charger, AND with the Regen feature. Where the programming of the version 5 or higher OBC will make a difference in charge is if you have not disabled the regen of the motor/controller. It has a slightly different algorithm for the Regen when you have the (6) 8-volt batteries as opposed to the (4) 12-volt batteries, mostly to control current and HEAT that can be realized when in the brief periods of Regen. With regard to the A/C PowerDrive charger; when you first plug it in to a pack that needs to be charged... the charger runs at max regardless of the (4) 12v or the (6) 8v set up. And will continue to charge at the normal rate, but may hold that rate slightly longer with the (6) 8-volt batteries than with the (4) 12-volt batteries. The “taper charge” at the end, switches to a constant voltage anyway.

His words:
You’ll not notice any difference in charging with the A/C PowerDrive charger. Unless you are using the Regen feature (meaning, if you have not modified your cart for high-speed and disabled the Regen feature), there is no difference. The changes affect the algorithm and charging of the Regen function. There is no significant difference between the version 3 and the version 5 or higher OBC that affects the A/C Charger. There are, however, some slight differences for the computer with regard to fleet management - but those don’t affect functionality of the A/C charger.

I know, I know... As I write, I know there are going to be people arguing about this. All I can say is: It’s your choice, believe what you choose. I don’t care. I’m not Moses. And this is not Mount Sinai. This guy’s explanation at Ingersoll Rand was good enough for me. I’m just sharing what I learned, do with it what you want.

So what’s it like? How does it work?
Break in your batteries following the advice that is repeated on this forum and by many dealers and experienced “modders”. Carefully use them for the first 25 or so cycles, never going beyond 50% depth of discharge. What you are actually doing is “growing” the plates with each charge, as the substrate becomes a little more spongy. This is a good thing, as it is creating slightly more surface area on each plate. It is by design.

The first full charge is a little odd... it appeared my OBC had to re-learn what was considered “full charge”, though I don’t really know what it was actually doing. The charger ran much longer than expected. However, after that the performance has been outstanding. The charger operates normally after the initial charge. Since I’m a big math freak, I also calculated out what my actual increase in capacity has been (using a hygrometer as my point of reference... a volt meter or state-of-charger meter does not have that fine of a resolution.) I have obtained about a 21% increase in overall range. What is important about that is NOT that I can go 21% further, although I can, ... but is that with each use, I discharge the pack 21% less deeply. This means you will realize a much longer overall battery life, given the same distance travelled.
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Unread 02-09-2014, 11:52 PM   #13
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Default Re: CC DS 4-12v to 6-8v conversion

Jake, Thanks for the "legwork" on this obc topic. I had considered the same issues with the charge profile. I was thinking that the T1275 (with its lower AH rating) prefers a little lower amp charge rate, but, the final voltage would be high enough to "finish the job". I know, they count all Ah out and all Ah in. The obc finish voltages have been (in my opinion) just a little high, which, from my way of thinking, would allow for a little increase in battery capacity. I feel that unless you discharge the pack all the way every time you use it (bad idea anyway), the obc should be able to cope with the Ah capacity increase.
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Unread 06-17-2014, 07:14 PM   #14
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Default

I am wanting to do the conversion, but I don't think I have the same battery box as you guys. Do you know if I will have to modify my box?

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Unread 06-17-2014, 11:34 PM   #15
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Default Re: CC DS 4-12v to 6-8v conversion

You have a 2008+ Precedent. Luckily you can drop 6x8v batteries in there with absolutely no modification needed.
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Unread 06-18-2014, 10:13 AM   #16
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Default Re: CC DS 4-12v to 6-8v conversion

Quote:
Originally Posted by CCFanatic View Post
You have a 2008+ Precedent. Luckily you can drop 6x8v batteries in there with absolutely no modification needed.
Awesome!

Thanks!
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Unread 05-09-2015, 12:00 PM   #17
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Default Re: CC DS 4-12v to 6-8v conversion

Thanks cgtech for the post and canine for the OBC information. Very good stuff. I recently did the conversion on a 2006 DS. Question for cgtech. Why did you remove the 4 spacers? I removed the two angle supports according to your plan with a hammer and chisel. When it got to removing the four spacers, it looked as though this would not be necessary. It appeared that the current 12 volt holders and rods along with bottom support would adequately support the 8 volt batteries. Therefore I only added two 1 1/2 inch strips of 1/8 inch alum to support each battery.
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Unread 05-17-2015, 12:00 PM   #18
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Default Re: CC DS 4-12v to 6-8v conversion

I have a friend who used the 48vdc Li-ion Volt battery listed on ebay and used his existing charger. He says he gets almost 15 miles on a single battery. He is going to add a second one for a longer range. The nice thing is that he eliminated all the weight replacing all the lead acid with one Li-ion battery that weighs only 40lbs. Just thought you may have a interest before buying a bunch of acid that will die in a couple of years.
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