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Old 11-30-2016, 11:52 PM   #1
carolinasled
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Default New Motor???

Ok guys, bought this cart non running this summer. Upgraded it to 48v Trojans, SPM48500 controller, HD solenoid, Albright FNR switch and HD cables. The DPI Charger stays plugged into it when not in use. The cart came with a D&D 170-002-0001 motor. It has been running fine. Last camping trip killed the batteries twice in 2 days and last saturday night depleted the batteries halfway on the meter with 2 adults and 1 child riding on side of the road on grass embankment at low speeds (could this also be bad on this motor???). All the lights & Stereo ran off of HD converter.

Im thinking the motor needs to be replaced with a torque motor of some sort. Couple people have told me a Admiral B1 but it says speed motor in every listing, Just confused about that.

Any Suggestions. This is the cart.
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Old 12-01-2016, 09:08 AM   #2
Volt_Ampere
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Default Re: New Motor???

Torque motor will not give you longer run times on the batteries. Your D&D is probably fine! They are very good motors.
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Old 12-02-2016, 03:33 PM   #3
bronsonj
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Default Re: New Motor???

Are your brakes dragging? Low tire pressures? Plenty of water in the batteries?

Sounds like something is causing extra load or your batteries are dying an early death.
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Old 12-02-2016, 10:50 PM   #4
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Default Re: New Motor???

Take into account the effect of temperature on the batteries. At 60° their capacity is down about 15% compared to what it was at 80°. Since they over perform at temps above 80° the change (drop) at 50-60° can be dramatic. If you were pressing them a little in the summer you will really notice the reduced range about this time of year. I think one year I replaced a perfectly good set of batteries before I learned about this.
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Old 12-03-2016, 12:16 AM   #5
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Default Re: New Motor???

Quote:
Originally Posted by kernal View Post
Take into account the effect of temperature on the batteries. At 60° their capacity is down about 15% compared to what it was at 80°. Since they over perform at temps above 80° the change (drop) at 50-60° can be dramatic. If you were pressing them a little in the summer you will really notice the reduced range about this time of year. I think one year I replaced a perfectly good set of batteries before I learned about this.
Nice post, I have replaced a few sets this week because they didn't perform as well as they did during the summer. I guess 30 minute discharge scores (now) was just enough to get them by during the summer (when they performed a little better).
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Old 12-03-2016, 09:54 AM   #6
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Default Re: New Motor???

What model Trojan batteries are in the 48V battery Pack? In the 8V family they range from 150Ah to 204AH. Using T-875 (170AH) batteries would have about the same run-time as a 36VV pack made up of T-105 batteries.

What MPH are you going when you say low speeds on grass embankment? At about 5MPH. your motor is turning at about 1000RPM and only has an efficiency of about 55%.

I suspect your short run-time is due to a combination of factors.
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Old 12-13-2016, 10:14 PM   #7
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Default Re: New Motor???

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Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
What model Trojan batteries are in the 48V battery Pack? In the 8V family they range from 150Ah to 204AH. Using T-875 (170AH) batteries would have about the same run-time as a 36VV pack made up of T-105 batteries.

What MPH are you going when you say low speeds on grass embankment? At about 5MPH. your motor is turning at about 1000RPM and only has an efficiency of about 55%.

I suspect your short run-time is due to a combination of factors.
They are T-875s, And Yes maybe 5mph on the embankment.

Tires are properly inflated, brakes may need to atleast have a set of eyes on them but I can roll it on pavement by pushing it.

Where did you find the percentage rate? When I was running it at the beach this summer it was hot and when I posted the original post about this it was in the mid 50s.

With the motor I mentioned, if you had this set up. Would you leave it or replace it with a torque motor?
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Old 12-14-2016, 11:19 AM   #8
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Default Re: New Motor???

The 55% efficiency is a guesstimate based on the known efficiencies of a couple other series wound D&D motors that I've managed to acquire dynamometer data for, so it could be about 5% lower or maybe 10% higher. If you contact D&D, they might tell you what the measured efficiency for your model motor is at various RPM.

Whatever your cart's range is in 80°F weather, it is about 22% less in 50°F weather. (Roughly a 7.5% change for ever 10°F)

If your tires are the low pressure type (<10PSI max inflation pressure) they take more torque to turn, which means the motor has to draw more amps to reach/maintain a given speed, which in turn lessens the range for a single charge.

Theoretically, with a standard speed motor, going from 36V to 48V increases the stock 14MPH speed by 33% to 18.6MPH while the increase in tire height from the stock 18", increases the stock 14MPH speed by 28% to 17.9MPH. The combination of the two ought to increase the stock speed 23.9MPH, but the taller tires also reduce the torque where rubber meets road by 22%, so your cart won't reach that speed. With properly inflated road tires, your cart might reach about 22.5MPH, a bit less with a heavy load.

Your motor is supposed to propel a stock 36V cart at 16MPH, which is 14.3% faster than a standard speed motor, so your cart's top speed on level ground ought to be upwards of 26MPH, theoretically.

Going to a higher torque motor will lower the cart's top speed and improve acceleration from a standstill for sure, but I'm not sure how much it will increase the range when traveling at low speed, if any.
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Old 12-15-2016, 11:42 PM   #9
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Default Re: New Motor???

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
The 55% efficiency is a guesstimate based on the known efficiencies of a couple other series wound D&D motors that I've managed to acquire dynamometer data for, so it could be about 5% lower or maybe 10% higher. If you contact D&D, they might tell you what the measured efficiency for your model motor is at various RPM.

Whatever your cart's range is in 80°F weather, it is about 22% less in 50°F weather. (Roughly a 7.5% change for ever 10°F)

If your tires are the low pressure type (<10PSI max inflation pressure) they take more torque to turn, which means the motor has to draw more amps to reach/maintain a given speed, which in turn lessens the range for a single charge.

Theoretically, with a standard speed motor, going from 36V to 48V increases the stock 14MPH speed by 33% to 18.6MPH while the increase in tire height from the stock 18", increases the stock 14MPH speed by 28% to 17.9MPH. The combination of the two ought to increase the stock speed 23.9MPH, but the taller tires also reduce the torque where rubber meets road by 22%, so your cart won't reach that speed. With properly inflated road tires, your cart might reach about 22.5MPH, a bit less with a heavy load.

Your motor is supposed to propel a stock 36V cart at 16MPH, which is 14.3% faster than a standard speed motor, so your cart's top speed on level ground ought to be upwards of 26MPH, theoretically.

Going to a higher torque motor will lower the cart's top speed and improve acceleration from a standstill for sure, but I'm not sure how much it will increase the range when traveling at low speed, if any.
Thank You Sir, I guess I will leave it the way it is. Maybe double check the tires and brakes for good measure and just be content with it until warm weather breaks. I Appreciate the time it took you to write that. Thank You
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