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Old 02-14-2017, 08:11 AM   #1
In Utopia
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Default Short?

This is a Series cart that I eliminated the F/R switch and replaced it with a contractor switch several years ago and never had a problem with that.
I have to leave my cart idle for two weeks at a time. Before leaving I fully charge it and then unplug the charger.
The last three times when I came back to use it the battery meter showed 1/2 charge.
Started to trouble shoot it and was shocked to find out that with the total pack reading 39.4 volts I saw 24.4 volts when I put one lead on the + or - terminal and the other to the frame. I always assumed there should be no reading of voltage on the frame.
I have nothing like lights or anything running off the batteries.
Batteries are 105's about 18 months old, all tested good, 6volts+, specific gravity was good.
I'll start looking for a frayed wire, but in the meantime is it normal to see voltage as described?
Checked all the wiring, still all intact and encased so there are no exposed single wires.
There is voltage when grounded, but no amps since it won't even light up a test light.
Right now only thing comes to mind, but don't know if it's possible. Could the digital battery display go bad and cause this bleed down? It's a Curtis with the red bars, and it's about 2 years old.
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Old 02-14-2017, 10:19 AM   #2
DaveTM
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Default Re: Short?

I would check your "High Voltage" wires (the heavy gauge wires) that run from the controller.....around the edge of the battery rack and to the motor. Right at the edge where those wires "wrap" at the battery rack one of the wires may have rubbed thru and is now in contact with the battery rack.....and hence, the entire cart's frame.

How do I know this? Yeah.....it's happen to me once before when the zip tie failed on the cables and they "drooped" down and would bounce up 'n down with the rear suspension.

This may not be your issue.....but worth a look.
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:18 AM   #3
JohnnieB
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Default Re: Short?

The LED bargraph type battery meters are notoriously unpredictable. Get a DVM type panel meter, it is more accurate and reliable.

Getting a voltage reading on the frame often occurs when you use Digital voltmeter since they typically have a high input impedance. It means there is a conductive pathway between the battery terminals and the frame, and with a high input impedance meter, the pathway doesn't have to be very conductive.

For example, you have a battery voltage of 39.4V and you read 24.4V on the frame, so there is a 15.0V drop across the resistance of the conductive pathway. If you meter's input impedance is 1Megohm, the resistance of the conductive pathway is about 620Kilohms. That means the current flow is about 24.3 microamps.

---------
Unless you disconnect one of the battery cables, the pre-charge resistor across the solenoid's large terminals will keep the filter capacitors in the controller charged. For safety reasons, there are bleed resistors attached to the filter capacitors, so the controller draws a small amount of current when it is connected to the battery pack. Check the voltage across the pre-charge resistor. It ought to in the 3V to 5V range. If it is much higher than that, the pre-charge resistor might be the wrong value or the controller might be drawing excessive pre-charge current.

-----------
What is the battery pack voltage after they have sat for 2-weeks?

Typically, batteries self-discharge at about 1% per day and in addition there is the controller drawing a few milliamps.

When you put a low impedance device like a test light on the frame, the relatively high resistance of the conductive path drop the bulk of the voltage and the test light won't be able to draw enough current to illuminate. (Ohm's laws at work. )
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:42 AM   #4
In Utopia
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Default Re: Short?

I didn't check the voltage with a meter when I first noticed the Curtis meter reading about 1/2. Drove it around for a couple of miles and checked before charging. Curtis meter was almost on full discharge. Meter showed 34.8 volts.
All 2 gauge wires are intact and show no signs of chafing.

Exactly what type meter do you suggest?
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:54 AM   #5
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Default Re: Short?

http://www.cartsunlimited.net/battery-meters.html
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Old 02-14-2017, 11:58 AM   #6
cgtech
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Default Re: Short?

Also, something as insignificant as carbon dust in the motor can do it. The main positive goes directly to the motor as well as the controller, a constant source of power. You could try disconnecting the wire at the motor that comes from the controller B+ terminal to see if the frame voltage goes away.
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Old 02-14-2017, 06:29 PM   #7
In Utopia
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Default Re: Short?

Didn't have time to do any troubleshooting today. Was going to disconnect the wire to the motor, but there are six wires are my two speed motor and I didn't know which one to disconnect. Below are pictures of my motor, and my solenoid switch . Can you help me identify which wire is which?
I also ordered a new precharge resistor just in case.




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Old 02-15-2017, 10:38 AM   #8
In Utopia
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Default Re: Short?

Today's report, went over every inch of all the four gauge wiring, nothing suspicious there. But I did run across this phenomenon.


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Old 02-15-2017, 11:39 AM   #9
yurtle
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Default Re: Short?

Try cleaning the batteries. I'm not sure what your vid is showing, but if it's voltage to the frame, acid residue is conductive, and it appears your hold down is metal.
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Old 02-15-2017, 01:08 PM   #10
In Utopia
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Default Re: Short?

The hold down is aluminum.
Washed the batteries down with a strong solution of water and baking soda.
Blew the tops of the batteries of, and then the test showed the same voltage as my whole battery pack.

I have more of an understanding of the female mind than I do electricity.
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