lifted club cars - lifted ezgo
Home FAQDonate Who's Online
Go Back   Buggies Gone Wild Golf Cart Forum > Golf Cart Repair and Troubleshooting > Electric EZGO
Electric EZGO Electric EZ GO Marathon, Medalist, TXT and RXV.



Post New Thread  Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 08-01-2018, 09:17 AM   #11
Not Yet Wild
E-Z-GO
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Alvin, Texas
Posts: 59
Default Re: Confused/Disappointed with New Altrax XCT48500PDS with ML3

Quote:
Originally Posted by bronsonj View Post
I know that the faster the motor spins the fewer amps it can draw. There's some fancy reason behind this, but that's not something I can explain... 28mph may just be the electro-mechanical limit of your motor.

As for not getting 4000 rpm in mode 2, how do you know you are not? 4k rpm should net you a theoretical maximum of 22 to 23 mph roughly. Assuming you have correct high pressure tires inflated all the way, your brakes aren't dragging, you don't have alignment issues, etc.

Mode 3 may net you a theoretical maximum of 34mph, but every bit of drag will be more impactful to your speed the faster you go. Wind resistance increases, your motors ability to draw amps decreases so tires at 8psi or a full windsheild or a bad alignment all have a significant impact at the far end of what your cart can do on paper.



http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/speed-calculator.php

Easiest thing to check is tire pressure. See what your max is stamped on the side of the tire and put your pressure close to that and rerun. If you have low pressure tires (under 12psi) then it will be a lot of resistance regardless.

Good luck and let us know what you find.
I am reading the motor rpm from the monitor page on my laptop while driving.
bubba4dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Alt Today
BGW

Golf car forum Sponsored Links

__________________
This advertising will not be shown in this way to registered members.
Register your free account today and become a member on Buggies Gone Wild Golf Cart Forum
   
Unread 08-01-2018, 09:20 AM   #12
Not Yet Wild
E-Z-GO
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Alvin, Texas
Posts: 59
Default Re: Confused/Disappointed with New Altrax XCT48500PDS with ML3

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
What is the max inflation pressure embossed on the sidewalls of you 23" tires?

What are you using the determine cart speed? (Inconsistencies - IE: 3000RPM = 16.5 MPH for your cart and you say it is going 15MPH - RPM vs MPH listed for modes 2 and 3 are much closer.)

Please record a datalog showing all three modes at max speed on level pavement, preferably the same stretch of level pavement.

Zip the resulting .csv files and post the .zip file here.
I am using a gps. I am not looking for the speed in mph as much as I am looking at the speed of the motor in rpm's.

I am driving with my laptop plugged in and looking at the monitor page.

I understand tire pressure can effect speed however the tire pressure is the same in all of the tests I have ran. I will have to look at the max pressure when I get home.
bubba4dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-01-2018, 09:23 AM   #13
Not Yet Wild
E-Z-GO
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Alvin, Texas
Posts: 59
Default Re: Confused/Disappointed with New Altrax XCT48500PDS with ML3

Quote:
Originally Posted by scottyb View Post
Also - try setting the regen to zero on mode 3 and like Johnie suggests, collect and share a monitor file while driving.
How do I collect a monitor file?

Can you just send me a screen shot of what the three pages of settings should be?

I haven't messed with any of the settings. they are all as you shipped them. with the exception of the # of speed sensor poles.
bubba4dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-01-2018, 09:30 AM   #14
Not Yet Wild
E-Z-GO
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Alvin, Texas
Posts: 59
Default Re: Confused/Disappointed with New Altrax XCT48500PDS with ML3

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
No need to break out the compass, an Admiral B2 motor has a 4-pole magnet disk.

When the XCT is set to 8-pole, the controller believes the motor is spinning at half the RPM it actually is, which is why all three modes had the same top speed.

The settings of 3000RPM, 4000RPM and 6000RPM are effectively doubled when a 4-pole motor is connected to a controller set for 8-poles, so the RPM settings for the three modes became 6000RPM, 8000RPM and 12000RPM. His Admiral B2 motor connected to his 48V battery pack with the drag imposed by his cart will spin at a max of 5193RPM (28.4MPH), which is lower than any of the artificially high RPM settings resulting from the controller being set to 8-poles.

I would be fine if it operated as above.

but I cannot get 4000 rpm with a max setting of 4000. And I cannot get 5193 rpm with a max setting of 5997.

I can only get 3500 with a max setting of 4000 and I can only get 4200 with a max setting of 5997.

I can get the 28.4 mph or roughly 5200 rpm's only by lying to the controller and saying the speed sensor is an 8 pole.

There is an issue with the correlation between max rpm and actual rpm.

I would be fine getting 4000 with a max setting of 4000 and getting 5193 with the max setting of 5997. but I'm not.
bubba4dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-01-2018, 10:26 AM   #15
go to cartsunlimited.net
 
scottyb's Avatar
E-Z-GO
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 68,154
Default Re: Confused/Disappointed with New Altrax XCT48500PDS with ML3

As Johnnie said - setting the controller to 8 pole for a 4 pole motor is going to make the controller count 50% of the motor rpms. This is the same as turning off the rpm limit. Please do not do this. Set the pole to 4 and a maximum rpm of 6000 in any mode to avoid motor damage. The RPM set is a limit. It not an absolute it is a safety limit. The motor will not spin above the set limit if the pole selection is correct. The motor may not reach the limit for several reasons like poor throttle signal or battery health. The motor may also not reach the set rpm limits by design meaning it is designed to operate at a lower rpm than the setting. This is often the case with a high torque motor.

For a 500a control change only the following settings from default.

In mode 1 (aka normal) set
motor armature amps 300
regan amps at 75
throttle rate at 30
reverse at 30
rpm limit of 2400
turf mode no turbo
throttle rate 35%

In mode 2 (aka user 1) set
motor armature amps 400
regan amps at 50
throttle rate at 40
reverse at 40
rpm limit of 3400
turf mode & turbo on
throttle rate 45%

In mode 3 (aka user 2) set
motor armature amps 500
regan amps at 0
throttle rate at 50
reverse at 50
rpm limit of 6000
street mode & turbo on
throttle rate 50%


For a 400a controller set max
motor armature amps 240/300/400

For a 500a controller with a stock motor set
motor armature amps 240/320/450
scottyb is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-01-2018, 10:35 AM   #16
Not Yet Wild
E-Z-GO
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Alvin, Texas
Posts: 59
Default Re: Confused/Disappointed with New Altrax XCT48500PDS with ML3

I will look at the settings Scotty.

I may not be asking my question correctly.

let me see if I can simplify my question.

Why can it go 4200 rpm in mode 3 and not be able to reach 4000 in mode 2?

the throttle % is reading 100% on the monitor page and then drops off a little and bounces around a little. so maybe there is something to this?

As for the batteries, they are brand new Trojans. the pack reads >51 volts resting.
bubba4dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-01-2018, 10:37 AM   #17
go to cartsunlimited.net
 
scottyb's Avatar
E-Z-GO
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Southern California
Posts: 68,154
Default Re: Confused/Disappointed with New Altrax XCT48500PDS with ML3

When you match all your settings to what I posted give us the new results
scottyb is online now   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-01-2018, 10:52 AM   #18
Not Yet Wild
E-Z-GO
 
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Alvin, Texas
Posts: 59
Default Re: Confused/Disappointed with New Altrax XCT48500PDS with ML3

I will have to look at the settings tonight. I am at work.

I am not 100% sure but just from memory I think all the settings are as you posted.

Can you explain what the regen amps is about?

I thought there were about 5 amp settings.

Do you have a actual screen shot of the normal, user 1, user 2 tabs?
bubba4dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-01-2018, 11:51 AM   #19
Gone Wild
 
WalterM6's Avatar
Club Car
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 998
Default Re: Confused/Disappointed with New Altrax XCT48500PDS with ML3

Try disconnecting the "ML3" and see if it works as advertised.
WalterM6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 08-01-2018, 03:22 PM   #20
Techno-Nerd
 
JohnnieB's Avatar
E-Z-GO
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: West Virginia
Posts: 15,323
Default Re: Confused/Disappointed with New Altrax XCT48500PDS with ML3

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubba4dad View Post
I would be fine if it operated as above.

but I cannot get 4000 rpm with a max setting of 4000. And I cannot get 5193 rpm with a max setting of 5997.

I can only get 3500 with a max setting of 4000 and I can only get 4200 with a max setting of 5997.

I can get the 28.4 mph or roughly 5200 rpm's only by lying to the controller and saying the speed sensor is an 8 pole.

There is an issue with the correlation between max rpm and actual rpm.

I would be fine getting 4000 with a max setting of 4000 and getting 5193 with the max setting of 5997. but I'm not.
The way the speed limit works is:
As the motor RPM approaches the set RPM value, the controller begins progressively reducing the duty cycle of the output (AKA %-Throttle) and by the time the RPM set-point is reached, the motor is producing just enough power to keep a cart with stock gears and tires at, or near, the speed dictated by the motor RPM selected. Carts that have more mechanical drag than a stock cart in perfect health won't get quite as close to the set-point.

22% more torque is needed to turn 23" tall tires, so the RPM reached will be further away from the set-point than it would be for a cart with stock height tires.

If you have a top speed of 15MPH in mode-1, which is set to 3000RPM, you are getting 2727RPM, so that appears to be normal.

If you have a top speed of 19MPH in mode-2, which is set to 4000RPM, you are getting 3454RPM, and that also appears to be normal.

However if mode-3 is set to 6000RPM and you only get 24MPH (4363RPM) there has to be other factors involved, but I don't know what they are.

What I do know is that your motor is capable of spinning at 5163RPM (28.4MPH) when unfettered by rpm constraints. The motor RPM effects the field mapping, but being 8000RPM lower is far more than I would suspect it to be.

-----------
How to record a data log and post it here:

On the left side of the Monitor page in Toolkit, you will find the data logging controls. Attached is a screen capture from a very early version of Toolkit, but the data logging stuff is still the same.

1. Use the Browse button to select where you want to save the file.
2. Click Start button to start recording data. Continuous gives the most accurate data.
3. Drive the cart. If at all possible, at least 30 seconds at top speed in all three modes on level pavement.
4. At end of test drive, click Stop button to close and save file.
5. The save file will be in a .csv (comma separated values) format, which cannot be attached to a post on BGW, so zip it and attach the resulting .zip file to a post here.

You can open the .csv file with a spreadsheet. It has 40 columns plus date and time (sample attached), so it might be scary to look at, but there is a lot of good information buried in there once you decipher it.

--------
BTW: When the cart exceeds the RPM set-point going down a hill, the regen braking becomes progressively stronger (within the limits imposed by the Regen settings) trying to keep the cart's speed at the set-point.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Monitor Tab - data logging circled.jpg (183.7 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg Raw data file.jpg (83.2 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg XCT - Data log controls.jpg (172.5 KB, 0 views)
JohnnieB is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Go Back   Buggies Gone Wild Golf Cart Forum > Golf Cart Repair and Troubleshooting > Electric EZGO


Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Forum
Happy but disappointed all at once Big Block Talk!
Very disappointed in led headlight Electric Club Car
Alltrax XCT48400PDS vs XCT48500PDS Electric EZGO
Very disappointed with EMP Extreme DC!


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:53 AM.


Club Car Electric | EZGO Electric | Lifted Golf Carts | Gas EZGO | Used Golf Carts and Parts

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.