I got a new handheld programmer--questions for bob boyce

nickdalzell1

FINALLY the boss has come through and got us a 1313-4401 OEM level handheld programmer, which is extremely nice!

But i have some questions before i start tinkering since it has a TON of options under Parameters-->System Configuration, especially on an RXV

I have played with a few settings, certainly not all of them, and managed to get one RXV to go 24 MPH over the original 20 (with 14" tires) as well as get far better takeoff speed by manipulating the acceleration curves for max, aggressive, rapid and so on.

I am curious what i should NOT be messing with, and where i should stop as far as max values go. I am not looking to go nuts and i stick with 20 MPH max on cars we are planning on selling and saving the speed changes for when a customer requests it or if they decide to disable the backup beeper.

But there are a TON of options, stuff for adjusting regen values, braking % and for now i have left those alone, but wondering what i should, could and should not be doing.

For example, if i save the settings from an RXV (it allows you to save all settings to internal storage) after i have unlocked freedom mode, is it possible to apply these to an identical controller on another RXV that has NOT been unlocked and save us from having to use the freedom passkeys?

BGW

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WalterM6

I'd say jump right in there, see what you can do "No guts, no blue chips"

BobBoyce

Congrats! I know that you don't have much choice, but you do need to understand that using a passkey is not optimal. Freedom mode cannot be cloned from one controller into another. But some of the negative affects of using a passkey can be passed on. What you need to do is save a file of each and every controller before making any changes. I use the format Model Number_Serial Number_Customer Name_Stock or Modified. Example: 1206AC-5201_012345_John Doe_Stock.cpf for a before modification file, and 1206AC-5201_012345_John Doe_Modified.cpf for an after modification file... This way if you mess up something, you can load the stock .cpf file back to the controller to undo your changes. You have some control over performance and speed, to take it further requires a laptop programmer. Have fun exploring what you can now do!

Bob

nickdalzell1

Good to know, thanks.

I actually have been saving CPF files knowing i can before and after any mods as i am bound to forget some values or forget what i did to make x cart go y speed and if i wanted to do another the same way there is literally no way i will remember every little thing i did.

There are indeed a ton of options though, but i am not sure what they all mean so i do not mess with them, such as the values for throttle deadband or the thresholds for errors, or the voltage cutback thresholds. For example, i can reduce the voltage that triggers undervoltage cutback but i do not because low voltage tends to let the smoke out of most controllers.

The setting i noticed makes the most difference in top speed (although it slows acceleration rate) is max RPM. by default in freedom mode, set for 19.5 MPH it is set for 1800 rpm. the one i got to 24 MPH (14 inch wheels, low profile tires) i just added a couple hundred RPM to the max making it 2000 RPM and it did make a noticeable difference to both the customer and others curious about taking it for a spin to see what i could do.

I am sadly a bit disappointed though in it being a tad more limited on TXT 48s, as there are less than half the options under that same menu for those, and i could only get 21-22 MPH max from the original 19.5, and only modify acceleration rate. I am guessing that is DC motor performance vs. AC motor performance?

I read that rather lengthy thread about programming controllers and i noticed you saying something about not unlocking freedom mode until you unlock other parameters, but can you unlock those other parameters with the handheld then enable freedom mode and what are those specific parameters? I always enable freedom mode first to get the 19.5 profile set, as i cannot see how one would get 24+ MPH out of a stock 14 MPH profile? From what i saw you implied there is more to gain if you change certain things before unlocking freedom mode, but never expanded on what those are, or whether it were possible from a handheld or the rather expensive programming station or development access level, and then the thread derailed onto a tirade of folks wanting to fabricate their own cables or something.

Dan33Klein

Bobboyce just programmed my txt48 Curtis controller with his laptop.(thanks again bob)
He did state the txt48 controller is very limited in how much you can program compared to the RXVs.
He turned up my Accel rate and turned up the speed to max. Along with regen braking. I’m getting about 19mph out of it on stock tires. My batteries are new and are still being broke in. My new 215-50-12 rims and tires are being delivered today. This should give me a little more speed. I am also upgrading to 2ga cables. I have a feeling I will want more and I will be looking Scotty be up in the near future!

BobBoyce

Yes, there are less abilities in the TXT48 vs the RXV, mainly in the speed settings. There are settings that OEM cannot access to turn RPM up on the RXV. The OEM level limits are minor in comparison, as they are limited by the limit set in the higher level settings. The OEM cannot override them. Even if you set the limit at OEM to above the high level setting, it will only reach what is set at the higher level. I tend to turn all of the higher level limits to max, then use OEM to turn the cart down to what is desired. That allows an OEM handset to be used for fine tuning perfomance once the cart has been turned up.

As for Freedom Mode... When a passkey is used, it turns down the maximum current that can be drawn by the motor, by up to 12% more than it came set from the factory. I say up to because the passkey code in the controller checks to see which profile is set, and what the max speed of that profile is set to. If profile 1 or 2 is selected, no change is made. If profile 3 is selected, and the speed is at max, it reduces the motor current value by 10%. If profile 4 is selected, and the speed is at max, it reduces the motor current by 12%. This is added to the existing reduction value from the factory, not a percentage of the possible 100%. I don't like going into the motor maps, but they are there for tuning if required. Changing tire size to above 20.5" requires remapping the motor, or else the controller tends to overdrive motor current and burn out in a year or two from repeated overheats. Anyone that runs a large tire or speed gears on a stock controller is on borrowed time, unless the current is turned down to compensate. Of course, this impacts performance, because in these cases the motor requires more current to turn the tires. That is where the 350 Amp upgrade controller comes into play. The stock controller is plenty powerful for stock tires and up to 20.5" in light hilly areas. Steeper hills with 20.5" tires can require more current than the stock controller can handle. Enough for now...

Bob

nickdalzell1

On an RXV (1206AC-5201) i can go to a possible 3000 RPM over the default 1800, and i have only gone up to 2000 which makes a noticeable difference in top speed, but at cost to low end (not a ton like with high speed gears) and the time to get to top speed is increased. However i tried this on two RXVs with the same result, although stock 8" wheels takes more adjustment to go that fast. i would expect 3000 to be top speed for stock wheels.


24 MPH max speed from an RXV is still much better than 19.5 MPH, and even if limited, 21 MPH on a TXT48 is better than 19.5 as well. Plus more detailed diagnostics is nice, color screen and ability to save data also nice. Ability to disarm backup buzzer in software is nice for the many who have so far had to live with tape over the buzzer and were not as satisfied

BobBoyce

I think you are adjusting a value in the wrong location. That setting of 1800 has to do with the first setpoint in the Power Limiting Map (Called PL Nominal Speed, default of 1800rpm) Then the value below is the Delta Speed (550rpm), which sets vector points that define the RPM curve of the motor Current map, such as Nominal, Plus Delta, Plus 2X Delta, Plus 4X Delta, and Plus 8X Delta. By raising the PL Nominal Speed, you are increasing motor drive current over a higher RPM, which does increase power, but heats up the motor (and controller) in the process. That is actually where we reduce motor current over increasing RPM to allow the controller to survive larger tires.

That Power Limiting Map is there to cut back on motor current as RPM increases, in order to avoid motor heating. The proper way to increase RPM is to increase the frequency of the sinewaves. And the proper way to increase power without heating is to raise the peak of the sinewaves, not increasing overall current

Motor Mapping is actually done at a higher level, in Motor Calibration, where rotor lock and rotor slip are adjusted over more than a dozen setpoints.

There is no access to the RPM limit in an OEM handset. There are 2 Access levels where this is done...

In the Development level access, we have access to set max RPM up from default (4500) to 8000 RPM. And we have access to all of the top level Accel/Decel/Regen/Braking settings

In Factory level access, we have access to another set of identical limits. Development overrides Factory, and Factory overrides OEM and below.

Here are some screenshots...

The first shows the limitations of Factory level, but we still have access to calibrations and settings that are important to getting performance.

The second shows Development level, in the Freedom Mode setting where it can be toggled on of off. Note the increased number of menus.

The third shows Development Level, the menu where we set the maximum RPM of the motor. There is also a max RPM setting in Motor settings, and in Factory level.

Bob

Attached Images

	Factory.jpg (314.1 KB, 0 views)
	Development Freedom Enable.jpg (265.3 KB, 0 views)
	Development Adjust RPM Limit.jpg (323.0 KB, 0 views)

nickdalzell1

that's great to know. Playing around today i noticed where my real speed increases are, and that's under acceleration menu under freedom there are values that i set one way it actually slows down and another speeds up, so that's interesting.

That's a menu for aggressive, rapid, mild and so on with values like 6.0s and the like. Lowering certain values makes more, raising makes less. one i was servicing to sell i set it wrong and it only went to 17 mph despite it being set to 19.5 under profiles, and that's one reason i am glad the backups exist, the one i speed up before to 20 i used its file and managed to unscrew what i screwed up.

BobBoyce

Just be careful. There are things that you can change that will affect speed, that have other reasons to be set a specific way. Calibration values are like that, and can have dire consequences when they are not correct for the way the cart is operated. This is why they don't just turn over higher access levels to just anyone.