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Unread 11-01-2019, 09:19 AM   #11
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Default Re: Three "bigger" 12v batteries or six 6v batteries

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Originally Posted by Mooncarter View Post
Where ya gonna put them? And no, they won't do what golf cart batteries are designed for.

If you can make them fit, please spend the $300 plus cores and modifications and report back. It would be interesting to see a full documentation of your waste of time and money.
Where ya gonna put them? DUH - put a like sized 12v battery in the place of a 6v battery. The 3 on the left side would be connected for 36v output. The 3 on the right side also connected for 36v, and bridged together for a total pack voltage of 36v. Old way - 6 batteries. New way - 6 batteries. Not rocket science.

I already said they wouldn't be as efficient as the 6v batteries would be. It was also established that the cart will function with 3 - 12v batteries at a greatly reduced distance. Just asking for an INTELLEGENT answer on how bad it would be. Not everyone has unlimited funds for batteries or needs to max out the battery capacity every day. If you end up with a 60% available distance at a 60% cost spent, and that distance covers your needs, what's the issue?
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Unread 11-01-2019, 12:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: Three "bigger" 12v batteries or six 6v batteries

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Originally Posted by EvilSpirit1 View Post
Where ya gonna put them? DUH - put a like sized 12v battery in the place of a 6v battery. The 3 on the left side would be connected for 36v output. The 3 on the right side also connected for 36v, and bridged together for a total pack voltage of 36v. Old way - 6 batteries. New way - 6 batteries. Not rocket science.

I already said they wouldn't be as efficient as the 6v batteries would be. It was also established that the cart will function with 3 - 12v batteries at a greatly reduced distance. Just asking for an INTELLEGENT answer on how bad it would be. Not everyone has unlimited funds for batteries or needs to max out the battery capacity every day. If you end up with a 60% available distance at a 60% cost spent, and that distance covers your needs, what's the issue?
Let me give this a shot based on what I have learned from here Scotty, johnnie B and others (they can also correct me if I am wrong)

Batteries are designed for a purpose based on Amp draw or Load. When you use those batteries for a purpose other than for what they were designed, you will greatly shorten the life of the battery. If you end up replacing batteries every year, you have not saved anything.

Cranking Batteries are designed to deliver very high amps for a short time period. Golf Cart Batteries are designed to deliver much lower amps for a longer period of time. Using them for different purposes will shorten the life.

Batteries are also put into carts based on the amp draw of the cart. All stock DC carts, 36v or 48v, require roughly the same amount of energy. Energy is measured in Watts. Watts = amps X volts. If volts are lower, amps must be higher to get the same amount of energy.

The batteries in a 36 volt cart are designed to deliver more amps to get the same amount of energy as batteries in 48v cart.

the 6 volt batteries used in a 36v cart are rated based on 75 amp draw because the lower voltage requires more amps per formula above.

8v and 12v batteries are designed to deliver a higher voltage and lower number of amps. 8v and 12v batteries are rated at 56 amps. Because of the higher voltage, the batteries do not have to put out as many amps.

So, when you use 12v batteries to power a 36v cart, you are drawing more (or greatly less as in a cranking battery) amps than is optimal for a 12v battery. This reduces the efficiency and can greatly shorten the life of the battery.

In the end, 36 DC volts is 36 DC volts, regardless of where you get it. You can use 6v, 12v or a large bank of 9 volt batteries to get your 36v. However, when you use batteries for an amp draw different than what it was designed, you will shorten the life of the battery.

If I had 3 old 12v batteries sitting around destined for recycle that would hold a charge, I would have no problem dropping them into a 36v cart to test it (have done many times) or if I needed 10 minutes run time. However, no way would I use a new 12v battery or I would intentionally spend money to buy the WRONG type battery hoping to save money. You may save some money on the front in, but in the long run you will lose.
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Unread 11-01-2019, 01:57 PM   #13
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Default Re: Three "bigger" 12v batteries or six 6v batteries

The ISSUE is you will probably have closer to $400 in a system that is inferior in many ways to $500 worth of batteries to start with.

I have bought those $50 batteries before. They are fine to get by in an old car or tractor or something for a while. I would never buy them to put in a golf cart.
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Unread 11-01-2019, 04:47 PM   #14
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Default Re: Three "bigger" 12v batteries or six 6v batteries

Mark Twain said it best.

"Quality is like buying oats: If you want nice, clean, fresh oats you must pay a fair price.
However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes a little cheaper... "

36V is 36V so you can run a 36V golf cart on three 12V car batteries, but the distance of travel on a single charge will be meager and the cradle to grave lifespan of those batteries will be dismal. Furthermore, while using car batteries may be cheaper up front, I doubt it will be in the long run.

Using three 12V deep-cycle batteries is a step in the right direction, but the highest capacity (Premium grade) 12V deep-cycle batteries that might or might not fit within the confines of a battery frame designed for a 6V a battery's footprint (12V cart batteries are 2.5" longer than 6V and 8V cart batteries - see attached specs) is little more than half the AH capacity of a standard grade 6V deep-cycle battery, so the range and lifespan will be half or less. (Probably less due to Peukert's law.)

While the lesser range and lifespan may be adequate for the needs of some some cart owners, I doubt it is for most of us.
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Unread 11-01-2019, 04:51 PM   #15
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Default Re: Three "bigger" 12v batteries or six 6v batteries

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Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
Mark Twain said it best.

"Quality is like buying oats: If you want nice, clean, fresh oats you must pay a fair price.
However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes a little cheaper... "

36V is 36V so you can run a 36V golf cart on three 12V car batteries, but the distance of travel on a single charge will be meager and the cradle to grave lifespan of those batteries will be dismal. Furthermore, while using car batteries may be cheaper up front, I doubt it will be in the long run.

Using three 12V deep-cycle batteries is a step in the right direction, but the highest capacity (Premium grade) 12V deep-cycle batteries that might or might not fit within the confines of a battery frame designed for a 6V a battery's footprint (12V cart batteries are 2.5" longer than 6V and 8V cart batteries - see attached specs) is little more than half the AH capacity of a standard grade 6V deep-cycle battery, so the range and lifespan will be half or less. (Probably less due to Peukert's law.)

While the lesser range and lifespan may be adequate for the needs of some some cart owners, I doubt it is for most of us.
I love the Mark Twain part!
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Unread 11-02-2019, 02:36 AM   #16
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Default Re: Three "bigger" 12v batteries or six 6v batteries

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Originally Posted by JohnnieB View Post
Mark Twain said it best.

"Quality is like buying oats: If you want nice, clean, fresh oats you must pay a fair price.
However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes a little cheaper... "


While the lesser range and lifespan may be adequate for the needs of some some cart owners, I doubt it is for most of us.
Twains quote can be modified to suit many situations. Here's an example.

"Knowledge is like buying oats: If you want nice, clean, fresh oats you must pay a fair price.
However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes a little cheaper... "


Information that is gained and shared through factual research and experience is much like the clean, fresh oats, while 3rd hand comments with no technical background is just common horses***.

In this case the cost of 12v battery fitment would be minimal. He would just get batteries that fit the trays the best, and I have enough old cable laying around to do the install. He won't be having to pay high dollar shop labor or parts costs for the install. Cart is a free working donor from a local high schools athletic dept. that needs batteries. With his financial situation saving $200 on batteries is a big plus, and it is easier for him to come up with $300 once a year than $600 every other one.

I understand the 12v battery setup is nowhere near optimal - I'm just doing some research for a special needs senior neighbor with limited mobility and has a strictly fixed income. Cart would probably see a total of 1 trip down a 300 yard gravel driveway a day. Pretty minimal request for a battery pack. Not trying to be a contestant in the gated compounds fastest cart/whizzing match/biggest johnson derby.

So with all this said - I will pass the info on for his consideration. He is also considering mobility scooters and other options. Thanks to the members that provided the "fresh oats". Willie
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Unread 11-02-2019, 03:31 AM   #17
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Default Re: Three "bigger" 12v batteries or six 6v batteries

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Originally Posted by EvilSpirit1 View Post
Twains quote can be modified to suit many situations. Here's an example.

"Knowledge is like buying oats: If you want nice, clean, fresh oats you must pay a fair price.
However, if you can be satisfied with oats that have already been through the horse, that comes a little cheaper... "


Information that is gained and shared through factual research and experience is much like the clean, fresh oats, while 3rd hand comments with no technical background is just common horses***.

In this case the cost of 12v battery fitment would be minimal. He would just get batteries that fit the trays the best, and I have enough old cable laying around to do the install. He won't be having to pay high dollar shop labor or parts costs for the install. Cart is a free working donor from a local high schools athletic dept. that needs batteries. With his financial situation saving $200 on batteries is a big plus, and it is easier for him to come up with $300 once a year than $600 every other one.

I understand the 12v battery setup is nowhere near optimal - I'm just doing some research for a special needs senior neighbor with limited mobility and has a strictly fixed income. Cart would probably see a total of 1 trip down a 300 yard gravel driveway a day. Pretty minimal request for a battery pack. Not trying to be a contestant in the gated compounds fastest cart/whizzing match/biggest johnson derby.

So with all this said - I will pass the info on for his consideration. He is also considering mobility scooters and other options. Thanks to the members that provided the "fresh oats". Willie
Willie, we are all sharing knowledge that comes from research and personal experiences. Who shared a third hand comment with no technical background?

We are sharing information from years of experience and observations and perspectives of those who know not only the science behind their opinions but have applied that knowledge to their own golf carts.

While my heart goes out to the person who is in need, his needs don't change the reality of physics in the real world. In fact, I think it would be a disservice to the person in need to lead them to something that will cost them more (IMHO a great deal more in terms of money and aggravation) in the long run. Why he would have to come up with $600 every other year for new batteries as you suggest confirms my suspicion you have not done your homework, yet you openly criticize those in the know.

Thanks for sharing the backstory of the person in need. I hope you do the right thing and have his best interest in mind. Nothing personal, just doing what we do here, adults sharing opinions based on knowledge and experience.
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Unread 11-02-2019, 04:34 AM   #18
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Default Re: Three "bigger" 12v batteries or six 6v batteries

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Originally Posted by Mooncarter View Post
Willie, we are all sharing knowledge that comes from research and personal experiences. Who shared a third hand comment with no technical background?
Since you inquired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mooncarter View Post
Where ya gonna put them? And no, they won't do what golf cart batteries are designed for.

If you can make them fit, please spend the $300 plus cores and modifications and report back. It would be interesting to see a full documentation of your waste of time and money.
My original question was "how bad would a carts run time suffer with 6 - 550cca 12v batteries?" I'd already shown that I new it wasn't the best set-up, just asking for a general idea how much of a poorer performance to expect by doing so.

So asking "Where ya gonna put them?" isn't exactly fresh oats. Same place as the other batteries would have went. I already knew they were inferior to proper batteries. Stale oats at best.

"If you can make them fit, please spend the $300 plus cores and modifications and report back. It would be interesting to see a full documentation of your waste of time and money." As far as offering helpful info goes - solidly in the used oats pasture.

So looking back, do you really see your first post as being intended to be technical advice, or sarcastic?
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Unread 11-02-2019, 04:42 AM   #19
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Default Re: Three "bigger" 12v batteries or six 6v batteries

Y'all keep throwing away your money on that garbage, if ya want! Just don't do it if you work for a government agency (then you are flushing my dollars down the john). Please, just stop kidding! I just got a trade-in cart with 4 "HD" group 24 starter batteries for its "48v pack". Hmmm, it "wouldn't go very far", gee, I wonder why. Batteries were trashed. Total waste of money & a scam on the unsuspecting buyer. Seen this too many times. The batteries were just under a year old. (Walmart warranty 4 life! , Right)

Wanna bold the text, feel free! Please bold it all if you do!
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Unread 11-02-2019, 05:34 AM   #20
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Default Re: Three "bigger" 12v batteries or six 6v batteries

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Originally Posted by cgtech View Post
Y'all keep throwing away your money on that garbage, if ya want! Just don't do it if you work for a government agency (then you are flushing my dollars down the john). Please, just stop kidding! I just got a trade-in cart with 4 "HD" group 24 starter batteries for its "48v pack". Hmmm, it "wouldn't go very far", gee, I wonder why. Batteries were trashed. Total waste of money & a scam on the unsuspecting buyer. Seen this too many times. The batteries were just under a year old. (Walmart warranty 4 life! , Right)

Wanna bold the text, feel free! Please bold it all if you do!
If you read my posts you will see that I know that the 12v car batteries are not the optimal setup by any means. I think we both know battery results vary greatly - I have a Walmart cheapie going on it's 4th year of service, so they do work on some applications. As to the trade in cart - with all due respect - do you know any history on the batteries? Improper care could have played a big part in the failure - a fact I'm sire you are aware of.

I listened to all the helpful technical advice and passed it on to the owner with the pro's and con's of 12v car battery usage. Some of the posts presented here were IMO not intended to be helpful, and were addressed as such, sometimes using bold type to identify what part of the post I was referring to. Again, thanks to all that provided factual information on battery usage. Willie
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