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3WheelDumbo 06-20-2013 06:08 PM

Total Charge vs. Toasted Batts.. Which is it
 
Hey guys gonna carry over some info from a previous thread, but it has brought up new questions that I need help with.
Previous thread:
http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/elect...off-early.html

In this thread it was brought up that the charger cuts off at 41.5v and Johnnie offered this test:
Sounds like you've either got excessive resistance in the charging loop, or a bad control board in charger; And I suspect it is the former rather than the later since control boards tend to either work correctly, or not work at all.

The first attachment is a wiring diagram for a Geenface Total Charge and the second is same drawing with some wires highlighted.

The wires highlighted in red and blue are the wires the feed the on-charge voltage to the control board and it is this voltage that actually shuts off the charger when it reaches about 45V.

The voltage you are measuring (41.5V) is at the distal end of the purple and green wires, so there may be enough resistance between where those wires attach (Negative at ammeter and positive at heatsink) and the main battery pack terminals to drop 3.5V when there is about 2A of current flowing.

The five high current cables that connect the six batteries in series, might or might not have issues, but any voltage they may be dropping is included in the 41.5V measured at the main + and - battery pack terminals, so they are not causing the symptoms being seen.

----------
Unplug the charger from AC power and remove the cover from the charger, then monitor the voltage on the red and black wires going to the control board (Heat sink and Ammeter would be the easiest places to connect test leads).

If it reads 41.5V (or same as voltage at main battery pack terminals) the control board is defective.

If it goes up to about 45V like it should, there is a resistance problem with the connections and components between the ammeter(-) and heatsink(+) and the main +&- terminals on the battery pack.


I performed the test and the readings in the charger at the heat sink and ammeter are the same as at the pack, and if I read the above test correctly Johnnie is suggesting the control board is bad. I agree with this but have a question. In order to get around the charger issue I used a 12v car charger to charge 2 batts at a time. The first 2 batteries charged for 22 hours at 6 amps and they were only reading 50% on the charger or 38.1 volts over the 2 batteries immediately after charge. I have now moved the charger over to the next 2 batteries and will see if they charge as well as measure SOC on the first 2 later.

Here are my questions:
1. If the batteries are gone, will they only charge to a lower voltage??? I believe this is the case because the 12v charger wont bring them to full charge either.
2. If the control board is bad would it have caused the batteries to be this low after who knows how many times its been charged (bought it this way)
3. What actions to take before buying new batteries, New control board?

Thanks as always you guys are awesome.

crash test dummy 06-20-2013 06:18 PM

Re: Total Charge vs. Toasted Batts.. Which is it
 
its "toasted batts" !!!
http://www.about-bats.com/graphics/bat-fruit-1.jpg
they are tasty !! :lhmo:
sorry dumbo i could not help myself !! :wink:

3WheelDumbo 06-20-2013 08:04 PM

Re: Total Charge vs. Toasted Batts.. Which is it
 
I love it... knew I missed you guys over the past week for a reason

JohnnieB 06-21-2013 10:01 AM

Re: Total Charge vs. Toasted Batts.. Which is it
 
After letting them rest for at least 12 hours, what is the voltage across each of the two batteries you charged with a 12V charger for 22Hrs?

3WheelDumbo 06-21-2013 11:00 AM

Re: Total Charge vs. Toasted Batts.. Which is it
 
will be able to tell you tonight when I get home. would the dead batteries provide enough resistance to cause the charger to shut off so early? (41.5v measured at the pack and in the charger)

Just want to make sure the charger is good before I buy new batteries and ruin them

rib33024 06-21-2013 11:12 AM

Re: Total Charge vs. Toasted Batts.. Which is it
 
Did the charger turn off at 41.5? or did the charger time out after it charged for over 12 hours and the volts were at 41.5?, how many hours does the charger run before it turns off?

3WheelDumbo 06-21-2013 12:05 PM

Re: Total Charge vs. Toasted Batts.. Which is it
 
charger cuts off at 41.5v, only runs about 2 hours... occasionally 3, that's what has me concerned.

3WheelDumbo 06-21-2013 04:31 PM

Re: Total Charge vs. Toasted Batts.. Which is it
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnieB (Post 897448)
After letting them rest for at least 12 hours, what is the voltage across each of the two batteries you charged with a 12V charger for 22Hrs?

12.32v and the next set of 2 looks to be the same. So if the batteries are this low can they cause enough voltage drop to make the charger cut of at 41.5v?

JohnnieB 06-21-2013 06:18 PM

Re: Total Charge vs. Toasted Batts.. Which is it
 
2 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by 3WheelDumbo (Post 897581)
12.32v and the next set of 2 looks to be the same. So if the batteries are this low can they cause enough voltage drop to make the charger cut of at 41.5v?

That is only about 70% SoC, which makes me think the batteries are sick.
(The attached chart is for "At-Rest" voltage, which is roughly 12 hours after the batteries have been taken off charge.)

The "On-Charge" voltage only climbing to 41.5V tells me something is wrong with the charger, so you may have two problems. Batteries and charger.

If the voltage on the red and black wires attached to the charger's control board only reach 41.5V and the charger shuts-off, the control board is shutting it off too soon.

Try this. Jumper the two wires attached to the relay on the control board.
(The picture is for a PW-II charger, but the relay looks the same)
That eliminates the control board and the charger will stay on as long as it is plugged into AC power.

Put battery pack on charge with the relay bypassed and see what the "On-Charge" voltage will climb to in 10-12 hours.
If it doesn't get about 45V, the charger is sick.

Fortunately, if it is sick, a Total Charge charger is 100% repairable.
We will just have to do some more t-shooting too figure out what to replace.

3WheelDumbo 06-21-2013 06:53 PM

Re: Total Charge vs. Toasted Batts.. Which is it
 
Your awesome johnnie..... thanks will do this weekend


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