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Unread 06-22-2014, 09:45 PM   #1
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Default how crappy are these batteries?

so the Batteries Plus store next door to work is trying to sell me batteries super hard. dude stops by the store to say hey and ask me when am i gonna get new batteries for the golf cart. he keeps coming down on the prices as well. hes offered me these and i wonder how cheap they are.

i can get these for $86 each
http://www.batteriesplus.com/product...-Electric.aspx

or i can get these for $109
http://www.batteriesplus.com/product...-Electric.aspx


any input on these fellas?
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Unread 06-22-2014, 10:17 PM   #2
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Default Re: how crappy are these batteries?

I guess for comparison sake, we need to know what a Trojan t105 and a t875 would cost in your area...

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Unread 06-23-2014, 04:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: how crappy are these batteries?

1) do you need new batteries ?
2) what is cart used for ?
3) why 6v and 8v batteries ?

6v
Duracell Rated at 215Ah 20hr rate... price in my area $78.99
Trojan rated at 225Ah 20Hr Rate ... price in my area $92.83

8v
Duracell Rated 165Ah 20hr rate.... price in my area $94.99
Trojan rated at 170Ah 20Hr Rate...price in my area $107.14
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Unread 06-23-2014, 06:18 AM   #4
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Default Re: how crappy are these batteries?

Setting pricing aside, both the 6V and the 8V batteries are below what is generally accepted as the "Standard" AH rating, so run-time and longevity will be less than what you will get from 225AH 6V batteries or 170AH 8V batteries.
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Unread 06-23-2014, 08:34 PM   #5
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Default Re: how crappy are these batteries?

thats what i wanted to hear. i was comparing 6v and 8v because im thinking about changing when i buy new batteries
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Unread 06-24-2014, 02:40 AM   #6
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Default Re: how crappy are these batteries?

I don't know if I would give a thumbs down quite yet. 3 questions come mind.

1-- (scottyb has said something like "more lead=more juice") so how much do these batts weigh?

2-- does a 3% increase in amp/hrs justify a 13% increase in price?

3-- (maybe the most important) who did the testing for their rating?
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Unread 06-24-2014, 07:24 AM   #7
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Default Re: how crappy are these batteries?

I agree with #2 above. At some point you have to do a cost/benefit or even better a life cycle cost analysis. It would be theoretical, using certain assumptions, but we have Trojan's chart of SOC vs. cycles or expected life.

At the right price point, it very well could be that planning on changing the batteries out - say one year earlier than with a more costly battery - could pay for itself if the price difference was sufficient.

We used to do that at work all the time. If one bearing gives you 5 years and another gives you 10, we'd evaluate the cost of parts and labor to do the change-out twice as often, vs. the cost differential of the two bearings.
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Unread 06-24-2014, 07:53 AM   #8
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Default Re: how crappy are these batteries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mazdawg(Mikey) View Post
thats what i wanted to hear. i was comparing 6v and 8v because im thinking about changing when i buy new batteries
In general terms, increasing the battery pack's voltage increases the cart's top speed, increasing the ampacity of the controller (and the rest of the energy delivery system) increases the cart's torque and increasing the kWh stored in the battery pack increases run-time (range) and battery lifespan.

In reality, the first and third (Speed and Range) are fairly straightforward, but the second one (Torque) can get a little confusing because an Amp at 36V has less energy (Watts) in it than an Amp at 48V.

In a nutshell, a 400A controller connected to a 36V battery pack can deliver 14,400 Watts (Volts times Amps = Watts) to a motor, while the same controller can deliver 19,200 Watts to the same motor connected to a 48V battery pack. Therefore increase the pack voltage increases both speed and torque even though the ampacity of the energy delivery system stays the same.

The energy stored in a the standard 36V-225AH battery pack and the standard 48V-170AH battery pack are roughly equal, so the range stays the same while speed and torque increase. However, it is human nature to use it if you got it, so the range typically suffers some from the driver's heavy foot.

Attached is a list of various 48V packs made up from commonly found batteries comparing kWh of stored energy for the pack.
If the battery you are looking at isn't on the list, pick one with the same AH rating and that is where it ranks.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 48V kWh Comparisons.JPG (105.4 KB, 0 views)
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Unread 06-24-2014, 08:32 AM   #9
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Default Re: how crappy are these batteries?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tag50 View Post
I don't know if I would give a thumbs down quite yet. 3 questions come mind.

1-- (scottyb has said something like "more lead=more juice") so how much do these batts weigh?

2-- does a 3% increase in amp/hrs justify a 13% increase in price?

3-- (maybe the most important) who did the testing for their rating?
1. "More Lead = More Juice" is basically true, but different plate designs and higher acid concentrations also equal "More Juice", so AH rating at the 20 Hour rate is probably the easiest yardstick to use since not all manufacturers publish weight information.

2. Justification is subjective, it depends on the wants, needs and desires of the person doing the justification.

3. Battery manufacturers typically do their own rating through destructive and non-destructive testing following BCI guidelines, however peer pressure is about all that keeps them honest other than the fact that anyone with the right equipment can verify the accuracy of the published data.
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Unread 06-24-2014, 08:45 AM   #10
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Default Re: how crappy are these batteries?

Bottom line for range is Amp Hour Rating not weight. (Generally the higher AH batteries do weigh more though)
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