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Unread 07-26-2014, 04:28 AM   #1
Not Yet Wild
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Question Motor & Solenoid to hot to touch

New to the site looking for help with a 2009 36v PDS.
Cart has been lifted with 23" tire installed.
Recently installed one Scotties upgrade kits along with the heavy duty wiring.
Cart runs great, but every so often the cart stalls, I simply turn the key off and back on and it clears the problem.
After 30 minutes of running the motor and new solenoid become extremly hot to the touch.
Pulled the wiring Diagrahm out to double check the install all seems to be correct.
As I am new to the golf cart world can anyone tell me my next move.
Thanks
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Unread 07-26-2014, 05:03 AM   #2
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Default Re: Motor & Solenoid to hot to touch

"Extremely hot" is somewhat subjective, but "too hot to touch" is less so. Do you have access to a handheld IR temperature gun? If not, try wetting you finger - just like Mom used to do to see if her iron was hot - and briefly touch them to see if they sizzle.

Your tires are pretty big. Which upgrade package did you install? Also, what are your driving habits as far as passengers, hills, load (rear seat, cargo), duration, etc. Also, probably wouldn't hurt to know the age and at rest voltage of your batteries, and whether you charge them after every use. Anything else you can think of.

Did you reinstall the old controller cover? If so, did you modify it? Check temperature on the controller when it stalls. Do you have a laptop and cable to connect to the controller? If so, it can tell you its temperature.
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Unread 07-26-2014, 06:53 AM   #3
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Default Re: Motor & Solenoid to hot to touch

In addition to the questions yurtle posed, is the LED on the controller blinking Red after the cart misbehaves and prior to being reset by turning off the key?

If so, how many blinks.

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A stock PDS motor turning 23" tires and powered by a 36V battery pack, is going to get mighty hot. The controller and solenoid will also run hotter due to the higher Amp flow through them. The question is: How hot is too hot?

The max recommended temperature for a motor with Class-H insulation, when measured at the case surface, is 115C (239F)
The controller shuts down at 95C (203F) and gives an error code of four Red blinks.
The solenoid will run cooler than the motor and controller since it is heated more by the current flow through the coil rather than the current flow through the contacts. (Voltage drop on the contacts of the 200A and 400A solenoids Scotty sells is only about 80 millivolts per 100A of current passing through through them.)
None of the high current cables or connections should get more than a few degrees above the ambient air temperature.

------------------
If the battery pack is increased to 42V or 48V, the system will run cooler.
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Unread 07-26-2014, 09:19 AM   #4
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Default Re: Motor & Solenoid to hot to touch

Yurtle / JohnnieB, thanks for the help

1) The cart only thripped off twice, this was on the first run after the upgrade. So far, it has not stalled sense. The red light did blink before reset.
The problem I have with this is the cart has to be trust worthy before driving 3 miles into the woods and something go wrong.
2) The motor temp. is hot to point where you can hold your hand on it for a 10 seconds or so before unberable.
3) The controll cover has been modified, but not secured its just sitting in the battery bay.
4) Passengers are wife and 2 kids duing the summer time on flat ground and a somewhat hilly enviroment with the biggest deer I can shoot during the winter time. Terrain is slightly rough and at times muddy.
5) The package that was purchased from Scotty was #808 400 Amp controller, heavy duty solenoid with #4 cables.
6) The cart was purchased last year, batteries were said to be one year old at purchase. Cart is charged after every use, religiously. The charger is cheep but it has maintained.
The feedback received from Scotty is that there is and amperage problem. My tires are too big are the motor is not up to the task of the new controler. The problem I have with the tire theory is the cart made it threw hunting season all last year in snow mud & creeks without any issues. I upgraded to give the cart a little more get up and go.
If the motor is the problem, I have no problem changing it, just want to make sure this is the issue before kicking out more change.
Thanks again for the help.
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Unread 07-26-2014, 09:26 AM   #5
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Default Re: Motor & Solenoid to hot to touch

Yurtle / JohnnieB, thanks for the help

1) The cart only thripped off twice, this was on the first run after the upgrade. So far, it has not stalled sense. The red light did blink before reset.
The problem I have with this is the cart has to be trust worthy before driving 3 miles into the woods and something go wrong.
2) The motor temp. is hot to point where you can hold your hand on it for a 10 seconds or so before unberable.
3) The controll cover has been modified, but not secured its just sitting in the battery bay.
4) Passengers are wife and 2 kids duing the summer time on flat ground and a somewhat hilly enviroment with the biggest deer I can shoot during the winter time. Terrain is slightly rough and at times muddy.
5) The package that was purchased from Scotty was #808 400 Amp controller, heavy duty solenoid with #4 cables.
6) The cart was purchased last year, batteries were said to be one year old at purchase. Cart is charged after every use, religiously. The charger is cheep but it has maintained.
The feedback received from Scotty is that there is and amperage problem. My tires are too big are the motor is not up to the task of the new controler. The problem I have with the tire theory is the cart made it threw hunting season all last year in snow mud & creeks without any issues. I upgraded to give the cart a little more get up and go.
If the motor is the problem, I have no problem changing it, just want to make sure this is the issue before kicking out more change.
Thanks again for the help.
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Unread 07-26-2014, 11:48 AM   #6
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Default Re: Motor & Solenoid to hot to touch

1. Good, it is giving an error code. The next time it happens, count the number of blinks. The blinks occur at 1/2 second intervals, then there is a 1 second pause and the blink sequence repeats. (4 blinks is overtemp --- 6 blinks is undervolts.)

What were you doing with the cart immediately prior to it shutting down?

Building a reliable cart is an admirable goal, something most of us strive for.

2. That isn't excessively hot. Probably no more than 160F.

3. Mount the Run/Tow switch in a plastic box attached to the underside of the seat lip near the controller and leave to cover off.

4. Sounds like modest tasking. Unless you plan on creeping through the woods at walking speed or less, or climbing really steep hills with the family on-board, a properly upgraded PDS cart will met those needs.

5. The DCX400 increased the number of amps the motor can draw by 33.3%, the stock solenoid whose contact are rated at 85A was replaced by a solenoid with 200A contacts and the 5 year old OEM high current cables with crimp-on terminals were replaced with 4Ga cables with silver soldered terminals, so the majority of the bottlenecks in the amp delivery system have been eliminated and the motor is now free to draw the amps it needs to produce the torque being called for.

6. That means the batteries are 2 years old, have been well maintained in the past year, but unknown for the first year.
There is a possibility you may have a battery issue.

What is the make and model of the batteries and what is the pack voltage when measure 12 hours after the charger shuts off? (Should be 38.2V)

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As pointed out in #5 above, the motor can draw a lot more amps now than it could before, so it is going to run hotter since heat generated increases exponentially as amps flow increases linearly. (There is more to it than that, but you should get the idea)

If the 23" tires are the low pressure type (max inflation pressure under 10 PSI), they take even more amps to turn than high pressure 23" tires (max inflation pressure over 20 PSI) and you most assuredly need more motor to turn them.

The 23" tire height alone is costing you about 22% of the available torque where the rubber meets the road, so I would go with a motor that generates more torque. A D&D 170-501-0001 produces 10% more torque than the stock PDS motor and a D&D 170-502-0001 produces 40% more.
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Unread 07-26-2014, 03:28 PM   #7
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Default Re: Motor & Solenoid to hot to touch

Thanks that’s good news,

I will check the batteries for the voltage, and also look into the 42v set up as well; have room on the driver’s side for another battery.
As for the run/tow switch, Scotty’s instructions were after cutting the cover, to mount it back on the plate but it will not fit with the new controller in place, so the bottom of the seat will be a good fit.
The new motor is almost a must, the previous owner stated he had replaced the motor recently in turn when the new controller was changed I did find #4 cable already installed. I renewed all the cables just for self-satisfaction, and confidence.

I will more than likely do the same with the motor.
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