CARBURETOR or REED VALVES ???????

Phillip

Well I'm back again.

1989 EZGO Workhorse with a 3PG 2 Cycle engine.

Had the top end of the engine rebuilt, with new crankshaft bearings and seals, also purchased and installed a new fuel pump, prior to having top end done.
So here I go riding the neighborhood with a big smile on my face, for about a week. Then all of a sudden a pop and she wouldn't start.
Got it back home and started checking. Didn't seem to be pumping any gas. So I called the guy that I bought the fuel pump from, and talked with him. He said because I had the crankshaft bearings and seals replaced, he bet it was a crankshaft seal, that had popped out.
So I took it back to the repair shop that did the work. Told them what the fuel pump man had said. A week later they called me back and said they had to order a set of reed valves. They installed them, and to their suprise it still would't run. Well guess what? they had to replace the CRANKSHAFT SEAL!!
Anyway, when I got it back it run like crap, popped when it was at low speed, and sometimes at high speed. It got to a point where it wouldn't hardly run unless you had the choke about halfway out, and the popping went away, but each day it got progressivly worse.
So again back to the shop. They called me today to come and get it. While they were telling me how they had worked on the CARBURETOR all day, they were loading it while I was inside, so when I got outside I checked it to see if it would start. I had to hold the gas to the floor and pull the choke out all the way, but it started on the trailer. Didn't drive it then because it was raining.
I got it home rolled it off the trailer, and guess what? It won't start. They got a call back from me, and they went into telling me they didn't know what else to do, and they would give me my money back. BUT that doesn't fix the cart.
So after this lond winded explaination, What do you all think?? Should I replace the carburetor? ( it's the original ) I can't seem to find a Reed Valve assembly anywhere, Just at a total loss. All this work, and the cart sits in shame, under the shelter.

PLEASE HELP !!

BGW

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rcbipeflyer

Phillip

My first question is. Are you doing any of the work or is the repair shop involved in all this repair work?
From what you're stating it sounds like it's starved for fuel. Was the crankshaft seal replaced correctly the second time around?? And was the reed valve assembly installed correctly along with the fuel pump?? Sounds like you may still have a crankcase sealing issue? Seems for you things stated simple and got complicated quite fast.
You'll need to find a reputable shop that can diagnose the cause(s) of the problem(s) and get the cart running one again, since the shop is throwing in the golf towel.
It shouldn't be that difficult for the right mechanic.

Phillip

To answer your question, all the work, except for the fuel pump, has been done by the shop.
In the area I live in there are only 2 shops that work on carts. Both have such a big turn over of employees, that I don't know what I am getting for my money.
The cart ran fine until the crankshaft seal popped out. Then the reed valves were replaced, and the carberator work. All costing me more money.

I have good compression. I have a good flow of fuel coming from the fuel pump to the carberator, but it doesn't seem to be getting any fuel to the cylinder.
I don't know if the reed valve could be the cause, or since it's the original 1989 carberator, could it be the cause.
As far as the crankshaft seal, if it's not right, it's my understanding, I wouldn't have any fuel pump pressure, and I have good pressure.
I just don't know if the reed valve will keep fuel from the cylinder, or any proceedure to check to see if the reed valve is bad.
AS far as a good mechanic. Yes a good one should be able to find and fix the problem, but I guess there is not one in my area!! So I now must go it alone.
I'm thinking of buying a new carberator, but I sure don't want to throw more good money away if thats not the problem.
Is there any steps to test the reed valves, or comments on how they should be installed correctly??

ruredy

If it was running good, and then went to running bad with no real run time on it..... what would make you think the carb just went bad all the sudden? gummed up, trash in it, bad gas, maybe, I doubt the carb went bad with a few days of running. From what you describe I'd still be thinking a crank case sealing problem, crank seals, cylinder base gasket issue, somthing along those lines. now that this shop has "fixed" the carb/reed valve i'd be inclined to re-do them just to make sure it is right. A compression test would be real handy also, just cause you had redone the top end on it doesn't mean it hasn't gotten screwed up again with the jack legs working on it.

Phillip

Well, I really don't know if the carb. has gone bad. All I know is when I took it back after the seal went out, they replaced the reed valves,(probably didn't need them) and then found the seal had popped out. It has never run right since that repair. I think they some how messed up the reed valve instalation, but I don't know how to check the reed valve instalation, or what to look for if I remove them.
I checked the compression and have about 90 to 100lbs. After checking the compression last night, and after they said they had worked on the carb. all day, I noticed that they had taken the choke and slid it back on the cable before tighting it, so it would run with about 1/4 choke.
The fuel pump has a good stream of fuel going to the carb., but does not seem to be getting through the carb. to the cylinder.
It sure is frustrating, knowing I've spent all this money and don't have a thing to show for it.
Don't know which way to go next.

ruredy

90, 100, isn't good....... but..... it should run. they may have done somthing that's not letting the reed valve work as it should. It's real hard to guess about what's wrong sitting at this key board, to me fixing 2 strokes are like trying to please my wife..... It may or may not work but if you throw enough money at it it'll usually be alright for a month or two.

rcbipeflyer

I agree that it sounds like you still have a sealing problem on the crankcase area. The 1/4 choke tells me that they need to choke the carb to keep the engine running, another indication to me that it's not pulling enough air through the carb to make the engine run correctly. I'd still pull the reed valves and check to see if they're OK. The reed valves are located between the carb and main crankcase. How they work is-- they are always in the closed postion until the piston starts it's upward travel the upward motion cause a suction pulling the valves open, letting fuel into the crankcase until the piston reaches the top of it's travel. Check for dirt, lint anything that would keep these very thin pieces of metal from sealing. You may also find that they may have bent them during installation??
These thin pieces of metal are only a few thousanth of an iinch thick, so be gentle handling and testing their movement. Keep posting if you have more questions.

Phillip

Well, I took the reed valves out, and one side of one set was not closing all the way. I took it apart and looking down on the top of the reeds, the 2 sides of that reed were not even. So I bent it enough to make them even, reinstalled them and they looked to be seating right. Touched each one with a pencil eraser to see if they were all the way seated, and they were.
Reinstalled on the cart, and what do you know, it started!
It runs OK, but it has a pop like skip every once in a while until you get it up to speed. So I took the plug out and checked the compression again (this time with a screw in gauge) and it's holds 150lbs.
That little popping skip worries me, but then, they have been all in the carb. So I don't know if I still have a problem with the reeds, or maybe with the carb.

Do the reeds need to seat pretty strong? I noticed it didn't take but a touch from the pencil to open them up.
Seems to me they could close down on the seat a little tighter, but I don't know, that why I'm asking.

P.S.
Oh by the way, I went back to the shop this morning and GOT MY MONEY BACK!! With my long winded explainations, and your suggestions, maybe before long I'll be riding the neighborhood again.

crash12888

That's some halfazz shade tree stuff right there. Businesses like that just frost my %$#%. Why the hell even open the door in the morning if your not going to do the best you can.
Shows what their work standards are, "get it to run long enough to collect money and get it out the door quick"
I'm sure that's in their Vision statement somewhere, if they even have one!
Alright, i'm done.........

rcbipeflyer

Way to go!! Getting your money back

The valves should be lay flat against the assembly without any downward pressure on the valves themsleves. If you tap them like you did to make them open they should easily open and close with no gaps or voids.
You need to make sure they're sealing... that's about it.
Now it does sounds like you have a carb issue.