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Old 06-14-2011, 08:16 PM   #1
jamesp
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Default 90 Marathon running poor after rebuild

I recently rebuilt the engine top and bottom. It starts and runs in forwrad but barely in reverse. Trying to time the little motor has got me stumped. No matter where I place the flywheel or pulser plate, advanced or retarded,
it makes no difference, with the timing light it shows timing retarded. Any change to the flywheel does not move the timing. When hot after a short ride the motor acts like its cranking with a lot of advance.

Following a thread by Dave I have checked all the following;
Switch on Throttle Depressed pedle there is 11.5 V to coil 13 when it starts.
Ohm check across blue and red wire 158 to 161.
AC volt check across blue and red wire when cranking .01 volts.

I have done the HEI conversion, new fuel pump, seals, carb everyhthing new in motor. I did not have this problem before the rebuild 2 months ago.

Iam hoping the last thing to do is the pulaer coil, with the above info does this indicate a bad one? Does it affect timing? Lost and G Kids want a ride.

Any one experience this, I would appreciate help in solving this. Tired of spending money on parts.
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Old 06-14-2011, 08:36 PM   #2
Dave Box
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Default Re: 90 Marathon running poor after rebuild

I would not get too hung up on the timing, it is supposed to be 20 degrees before TDC and the 2PG engine is remarkably tolerant about timing. If the engine is running well in forward (and here I assume that you are getting 12 - 15 mph?) then there is little wrong with the engine per se and your measurements look good.

I wonder if you have a clutch / drive belt issue here. Maybe you could slip the belt off, start the engine in forward and gently rev it up observing the drive clutch which should start to close. Now do the same in reverse. Does the engine sound the same and freely rev up? Does the clutch close up smoothly?

Let us know and we can take it from there?

Dave
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Old 06-15-2011, 09:58 AM   #3
jamesp
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Default Re: 90 Marathon running poor after rebuild

Dave
The engine starts in forward revs up and the clutch closes bringing the belt to the top of the clutch, it will not do that in reverse. It bearly starts in reverse and the clutch does not close. I have the cart on stands to see what is going on and to work on it. When it warms up it hard to start in forward.

The cart worked ok, forward and reverse, in Feburary until it would'nt start and left us stranded at the beach. When it cooled it started and thats when I did the overhall, low compression bad coil etc.

It has over 130psi compression now and all new ignition, carb etc. I just cant figure what has the timing (phasing) screwed up, I changed hei modules, put stock ingniton back in and makes no difference it runs the same.

Jim
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:09 AM   #4
Dave Box
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Default Re: 90 Marathon running poor after rebuild

Jim,
I wonder if you have inadvertently got it so far out that in forward it is running off the reverse pulse and in reverse it is hugely advanced. Here is what I would do.
Pull off the flywheel, now look at the ring that holds the pulsar coil. Loosen the screws that hold the ring to the crankcase and rotate the ring so that it is exactly in the center of its adjustment range.
Another (very remote) possibility is that the metal bar in the flywheel that provides the interrupt signal for the pulsar in reverse has fallen out so have a look on the inside and be sure that you see two metal inserts.
This can also be a symptom of worn crankshaft seals but you said that you replaced them yes?

Dave
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:10 AM   #5
ScooterMcTavish
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Default Re: 90 Marathon running poor after rebuild

Hey James, welcome here.

You said you did change seals - did you do the crank seals? This sounds like a typical crank seal issue. Even if they are new, you could still test them since you got the cart up on jack stands.

When running in reverse, try spraying some WD40 in behind the flywheel, and by the seal on the clutch side - if the cart revs up, then you've got a crank seal issue.

Ahhh Dave beat me by a minute.

Last edited by ScooterMcTavish; 06-15-2011 at 10:15 AM.. Reason: Dave is faster
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:28 AM   #6
Dave Box
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Default Re: 90 Marathon running poor after rebuild

Ahhh Dave beat me by a minute.
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:39 AM   #7
jamesp
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Default Re: 90 Marathon running poor after rebuild

Dave
The engine starts in forward revs up and the clutch closes bringing the belt to the top of the clutch, it will not do that in reverse. It bearly starts in reverse and the clutch does not close. I have the cart on stands to see what is going on and to work on it. When it warms up it hard to start in forward.

The cart worked ok, forward and reverse, in Feburary until it would'nt start and left us stranded at the beach. When it cooled it started and thats when I did the overhall, low compression bad coil etc.

It has over 130psi compression now and all new ignition, carb etc. I just cant figure what has the timing (phasing) screwed up, I changed hei modules, put stock ingniton back in and makes no difference it runs the same.

Jim
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:54 AM   #8
jamesp
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Default Re: 90 Marathon running poor after rebuild

Dave
You can't believe how many times I've taken the flywheel off. Currently the plate is fully advance all the way to the right and its been left, center and all in between. When I put motor back together I set plate exactly the way I took it off. The flywheel has a metal ring with 2 bumps to trigger the pulser, I took it off to turn it over but can't because of how its made. I tried to set the pulser mounting plate at .016 off the crank to make sure the air gap is the same on both pickups, not sure if this is correct. Makes no difference. This is a 3pg and the bumps are machined into the ring. I had the same thought as you about the ring.
Scooter
Thanks for chiming in, yes I replaced the seals (twice), I forced myself and other 1/2 to drive the cart it ran poorly with little power especially up a grade, after about 2 miles it backfired and ran no more, so walk home and get car to tow it in, how embarrassing. Blew the clutch side seal out.
Iam lost and need
Jim
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Old 06-15-2011, 11:49 AM   #9
Dave Box
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Default Re: 90 Marathon running poor after rebuild

I forced myself and other 1/2 to drive the cart it ran poorly with little power especially up a grade, after about 2 miles it backfired and ran no more, so walk home and get car to tow it in, how embarrassing. Blew the clutch side seal out.

Is the statement above recent? I ask because I was under the impression that it ran great in forward and badly in reverse. If it ran poorly in forward with little power especially up a grade, then we need to explore a whole new arena.

Confirm that it runs poorly in forward and we will have this thing fixed in 24 hours.

Dave
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Old 06-15-2011, 03:39 PM   #10
jamesp
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Default Re: 90 Marathon running poor after rebuild

Dave

That statement is from about 3 weeks ago, after the blown seal I pulled motor and replaced seals and started messing with flywheel positions to see if it would run better and get timing right. Nothing I do affects timing mark. It runs in forward but after a run around the block if you stop and start it acts as if there is too much timing hard to start. It barley runs in reverse as I stated it will not rev up.
I thought it might be the triggers on the ring in the flywheel but the magnet is in the pulser coil, I cant see one bump on the ring not making contact and the other one does.
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