My New Harley Buggy

Dabble Inn · 10-02-2019, 11:41 AM

Hello all, I'm new to the Harley section here but am an old head on the Ezgo side. I friend was selling this Harley, to me they are so unique and such a classic I couldn't pass it up for the price. I have a nice older Ezgo (avatar pic) and really don't need a second buggy but decided I do need a winter project lol, The body and upholstery are in great shape as the pics show......

The problem is (and the reason he sold it) it runs terrible, it falls flat on it's butt anything over 1/4 throttle. Smokes badly and won't go over 6mph lol, sounds like it's bobbling and won't rev up. He did a top end, carb, points, drive clutch and new battery.......

Of course all of those repairs don't really mean anything as it still doesn't run right, the first thing I'll do is a compression test and go from there. I suspect crankshaft seals, check points/timing etc. Is there anything else I should be aware of with these engines? I see reed valves are still available (unlike my Ezgo), I'll look into that also.

Thanks in advance

raydhd · 10-02-2019, 01:13 PM

Blocked Muffler ? That is one clean looking Harley

Dabble Inn · 10-02-2019, 01:21 PM

I just did a muffler bbq on my Ezgo, it was fun lol. Yeah I like that idea and I am up at my camp with a fire pit, Looks like I'll be having another muffler bbq party. Thanks

raydhd · 10-02-2019, 01:42 PM

Most of the time when the stock HD didn't run right it was due to a blocked muffler. Generally it was just the tail pipe coming out of the muffler. We rigged up a ram rod unblocking tool.

Lochlin · 10-03-2019, 07:34 AM

Man, that cart is a beauty. That's one of my favorite style of carts of all time and that style happened to be what started it all for me. My father in law has one of those and it sat in his garage for years as he couldn't get it going. As I am a tinkerer by nature, he asked me to monkey with it. A new top end, fuel pump work, etc. later and the thing is still running to this day (knock on wood). I now have ten carts, most of which are vintage, 4 of which are HD / Columbia (which are pretty much the same)..

All common parts to these carts are easily available.....carbs, seals, bearings, reeds, top ends, etc. You will find that a lot of the parts for the HDs are shared with other machines to include EZGo carts. Where things get dicey are the unique HD parts such as cranks and clutches.

The ignition circuits are basically the same between HDs and EZGos. When I converted my carts from points to HEI I actually used an EZGo conversion schematic as a template for the HDs.

You are all over it with regard to troubleshooting. Don't be afraid to take the muffler off altogether and run it to see if the muffler is your issue. Of course it will be loud but it won't hurt anything. Your other thoughts are all spot on.....timing (I hate it), fuel delivery / crank seals, and clutches not opening / closing up right will cause a cart to not rev up. Pretty much the same as your other cart.

Dabble Inn · 10-03-2019, 11:42 AM

Thanks y'all for the encouraging words...........

I ran it yesterday without the muffler with no change in performance, and yeah it was LOUD lol. Although the muffler looked better than I expected I went ahead and bbq'd it anyway, my heat gun read about 750*ish for a couple hours and got a little flame and smoke out of it but nothing spectacular. I'll get it back on today........

I won't get it home where my tools are for a couple weeks, that's when I'll seriously tear into it. All I know so far is the spark seems decent by laying the plug on head while turning it over, but of course that doesn't check the timing. It has enough compression that I couldn't keep my thumb on the hole lol.....

One more thing I will do today is drain the tank and start over with exactly 1.5oz oil per gallon, maybe that'll clear up the excessive smoking. Pretty sure the PO did a lot of estimating when mixing.

I've read the plug should be NGK BP '4or5' ES, it has a 4 in it now so that's a hotter plug. Guess I'll stick with that, I'm at 6000ft elevation

Questions;
Do I need a special clutch puller?

Would like more info on the HEI conversion, what and where to get the parts?
I'd really like to get rid of the points..

Boy, they didn't leave much room to play with the carb huh? I don't know if there's any adjustment screws on it or where they should be set at if there is?

Lochlin · 10-03-2019, 01:40 PM

Here is link to an HEI sticky on top of the Columbia forum.

http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/gas-c...formation.html

It's exactly the same for HDs. I actually just put one on my brother's HD a month or so ago and it did wonders for a backfire issue he had. All parts can all be had on Amazon for cheap. You have to do some very minor soldering but it's a very simple process.

Here is a link to all of the service / parts manuals for HDs and Columbias:

http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/columbia-parcars/

Your specific manuals will be there.

Regarding your carb, there is a fuel adjustment screw there. Factory set is 1 1/2 turns out from completely closed. Personally, I hate those Tillotson carbs as the fuel pumps are nothing more than a couple of diaphrams inside the carb itself. There is no float bowl which, in my opinion, is troublesome. I install electric fuel pumps upstream from those to make sure fuel delivery isn't an issue. Some guys aren't crazy about that set up but it's always served me well.

Dabble Inn · 10-04-2019, 10:53 AM

Yeah I don't like those diaphragm carbs either, Tooo complicated!! Didn't know it would help to put an electric pump in the line.......

I did suck out the tank, put fresh exact mix of 1.5oz oil to each gallon. Doesn't run any better but did clear up the smoke, so at least that's one improvement.....

I also replaced fuel line and filter, all I could get here is the black line which I don't like. I prefer the tinted blue or yellow stuff, It's easier to work with and I just use tie-wraps instead of hose clamps. Plus you can see the fuel in it for easier troubleshooting, I will replace it again when I get it home..........

Thanks for the links and the info on the adjustment screw, I'll check those out today

Dabble Inn · 10-04-2019, 11:48 AM

Well, I checked out all that link had to offer. Although I am very handy and pretty sure I can handle the building of an HEI system but as of right now it seems really complicated, I'll have to read it all again and again a few more times and maybe it'll get simpler lol.....

The main thing I did learn that had me wondering about is that you still use a set of points at the cam, I understand that's only for timing purposes but expected some kind of pickup and magnet conversion there. The rest of it hurts my brain lol

Thanks

Lochlin · 10-07-2019, 09:58 AM

I was intimidated with the conversion at first as well. Once I got to doing it, though, it was actually pretty simple.

The points trigger is fascinating and, even though it worked, it took me some time to get the logic. For sure, later Columbias used magnet embedded caps on the end of the cam to trigger the ignition:
https://www.vintagegolfcartparts.com...RotorElecronic

All the points do in the conversion is take the place of the magnets. They start the spark process but don't determine when spark is delivered as the HEI module does that.

10-02-2019, 01:13 PM	#2
raydhd VC 460 CLONE GONE WILD Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Ray BY The Bay NJ Posts: 10,633	Re: My New Harley Buggy Blocked Muffler ? That is one clean looking Harley

10-02-2019, 01:42 PM	#4
raydhd VC 460 CLONE GONE WILD Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: Ray BY The Bay NJ Posts: 10,633	Re: My New Harley Buggy Most of the time when the stock HD didn't run right it was due to a blocked muffler. Generally it was just the tail pipe coming out of the muffler. We rigged up a ram rod unblocking tool.

10-03-2019, 07:34 AM	#5
Lochlin Gone Wild Join Date: May 2011 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 2,943	Re: My New Harley Buggy Man, that cart is a beauty. That's one of my favorite style of carts of all time and that style happened to be what started it all for me. My father in law has one of those and it sat in his garage for years as he couldn't get it going. As I am a tinkerer by nature, he asked me to monkey with it. A new top end, fuel pump work, etc. later and the thing is still running to this day (knock on wood). I now have ten carts, most of which are vintage, 4 of which are HD / Columbia (which are pretty much the same).. All common parts to these carts are easily available.....carbs, seals, bearings, reeds, top ends, etc. You will find that a lot of the parts for the HDs are shared with other machines to include EZGo carts. Where things get dicey are the unique HD parts such as cranks and clutches. The ignition circuits are basically the same between HDs and EZGos. When I converted my carts from points to HEI I actually used an EZGo conversion schematic as a template for the HDs. You are all over it with regard to troubleshooting. Don't be afraid to take the muffler off altogether and run it to see if the muffler is your issue. Of course it will be loud but it won't hurt anything. Your other thoughts are all spot on.....timing (I hate it), fuel delivery / crank seals, and clutches not opening / closing up right will cause a cart to not rev up. Pretty much the same as your other cart.

10-03-2019, 11:42 AM	#6
Dabble Inn Nincompoop Club Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Idaho Posts: 1,178	Re: My New Harley Buggy Thanks y'all for the encouraging words........... I ran it yesterday without the muffler with no change in performance, and yeah it was LOUD lol. Although the muffler looked better than I expected I went ahead and bbq'd it anyway, my heat gun read about 750*ish for a couple hours and got a little flame and smoke out of it but nothing spectacular. I'll get it back on today........ I won't get it home where my tools are for a couple weeks, that's when I'll seriously tear into it. All I know so far is the spark seems decent by laying the plug on head while turning it over, but of course that doesn't check the timing. It has enough compression that I couldn't keep my thumb on the hole lol..... One more thing I will do today is drain the tank and start over with exactly 1.5oz oil per gallon, maybe that'll clear up the excessive smoking. Pretty sure the PO did a lot of estimating when mixing. I've read the plug should be NGK BP '4or5' ES, it has a 4 in it now so that's a hotter plug. Guess I'll stick with that, I'm at 6000ft elevation Questions; Do I need a special clutch puller? Would like more info on the HEI conversion, what and where to get the parts? I'd really like to get rid of the points.. Boy, they didn't leave much room to play with the carb huh? I don't know if there's any adjustment screws on it or where they should be set at if there is?

10-03-2019, 01:40 PM	#7
Lochlin Gone Wild Join Date: May 2011 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 2,943	Re: My New Harley Buggy Here is link to an HEI sticky on top of the Columbia forum. http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/gas-c...formation.html It's exactly the same for HDs. I actually just put one on my brother's HD a month or so ago and it did wonders for a backfire issue he had. All parts can all be had on Amazon for cheap. You have to do some very minor soldering but it's a very simple process. Here is a link to all of the service / parts manuals for HDs and Columbias: http://www.buggiesgonewild.com/columbia-parcars/ Your specific manuals will be there. Regarding your carb, there is a fuel adjustment screw there. Factory set is 1 1/2 turns out from completely closed. Personally, I hate those Tillotson carbs as the fuel pumps are nothing more than a couple of diaphrams inside the carb itself. There is no float bowl which, in my opinion, is troublesome. I install electric fuel pumps upstream from those to make sure fuel delivery isn't an issue. Some guys aren't crazy about that set up but it's always served me well.

Today
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10-04-2019, 10:53 AM	#8
Dabble Inn Nincompoop Club Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Idaho Posts: 1,178	Re: My New Harley Buggy Yeah I don't like those diaphragm carbs either, Tooo complicated!! Didn't know it would help to put an electric pump in the line....... I did suck out the tank, put fresh exact mix of 1.5oz oil to each gallon. Doesn't run any better but did clear up the smoke, so at least that's one improvement..... I also replaced fuel line and filter, all I could get here is the black line which I don't like. I prefer the tinted blue or yellow stuff, It's easier to work with and I just use tie-wraps instead of hose clamps. Plus you can see the fuel in it for easier troubleshooting, I will replace it again when I get it home.......... Thanks for the links and the info on the adjustment screw, I'll check those out today

10-04-2019, 11:48 AM	#9
Dabble Inn Nincompoop Club Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Idaho Posts: 1,178	Re: My New Harley Buggy Well, I checked out all that link had to offer. Although I am very handy and pretty sure I can handle the building of an HEI system but as of right now it seems really complicated, I'll have to read it all again and again a few more times and maybe it'll get simpler lol..... The main thing I did learn that had me wondering about is that you still use a set of points at the cam, I understand that's only for timing purposes but expected some kind of pickup and magnet conversion there. The rest of it hurts my brain lol Thanks

10-07-2019, 09:58 AM	#10
Lochlin Gone Wild Join Date: May 2011 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 2,943	Re: My New Harley Buggy I was intimidated with the conversion at first as well. Once I got to doing it, though, it was actually pretty simple. The points trigger is fascinating and, even though it worked, it took me some time to get the logic. For sure, later Columbias used magnet embedded caps on the end of the cam to trigger the ignition: https://www.vintagegolfcartparts.com...RotorElecronic All the points do in the conversion is take the place of the magnets. They start the spark process but don't determine when spark is delivered as the HEI module does that.

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