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Unread 11-12-2019, 08:52 PM   #1
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Default Help! A few questions on an engine rebuild 78 Harley

I split the case to install new bearings and seals, I don't know if this one has been apart before but here's what I found.....

Questions;
1) There were no case gaskets, (The repair manual doesn't show any either). Wondering if I should use the ones that are available or just an anaerobic sealer?

2) Fan side (right) has two sets of ball bearings, (The manual says they're both one side sealed). I've got the inside one having no seals and the outside one was sealed on both sides. I've found replacements but can't tell by the pics or descriptions if they're sealed on just one or both sides......

I will say after opening the case and seeing how it's designed I would think both of these bearings should be sealed on both sides as the fuel/oil mixture does not go through them for lube, in fact they're isolated from the crankcase completely by another seal..... Perhaps I've answered my own question here lol, but wondering what yous guys have used? TIA
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Unread 11-13-2019, 12:00 PM   #2
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Default Re: Help! A few questions on an engine rebuild 78 Harley

I never never opened anything prior to the Columbia motors which were a little different seal-wise. Those ones use case gaskets. That said, I am pretty certain that gaskets weren't used on the earlier carts, just a thin layer of sealer as you mention.

I really can't help you with #2 from experience but I agree that it makes no sense whatsoever to have bearing on the outside of a seal.

Someone else may chime is but if you call vintagegolfcartparts.com I am sure that they can tell you for sure. They get a lot of referrals from this forum and they would be glas to offer some advice.
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Unread 11-13-2019, 01:16 PM   #3
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Default Re: Help! A few questions on an engine rebuild 78 Harley

Thanks Lochlin, I figured out how to post up a pic from the manual of the crankcase view to give you a better idea. Notice part#9A is a seal, and the left part#11 bearing was an open bearing. The right #11 bearing was sealed on both sides, very very strange to me that the left #11 was open. It wouldn't have a way to lube since the fuel/oil doesn't pass through the bearing cavity at all, I will be replacing both of them with sealed on both sides.....

Oh, here's the quote from the manual on assembly stating to use one sided bearings on both. Doing that would mean no lube for either one

Quote; Press in outer bearing #11 with sealed (black side) facing outwards, press in inner bearing #11 with sealed (black side) facing inwards. Unquote:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg HD Crankcase Exploded View.JPG (589.9 KB, 0 views)
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Unread 11-21-2019, 12:39 PM   #4
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Default Re: Help! A few questions on an engine rebuild 78 Harley

I always used sealed bearings and have never had an issue. I have used gaskets between cases and also used sealer, I prefer to use gaskets but either way is good. Many of the engines I have torn down have bearings with seals as you describe so it must not matter if bearings have both seals or not but i feel better leaving them sealed.
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Unread 11-21-2019, 05:35 PM   #5
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Default Re: Help! A few questions on an engine rebuild 78 Harley

Ok Thanks for the info T-C and I agree with having them sealed on both sides on this one......

I've done Ezgo's in the past that have open bearings as the fuel/oil mix is forced through them for lube, then just a regular seal on the outside of the case. I really don't know if one design is better than the other but I do know using an open bearing (or one sided) in an enclosed sealed off dry cavity can't be a good idea, and on this one the clutch side is an open needle bearing that isn't sealed off from the crankcase but the fuel/oil mix isn't forced through it either. It's just there getting whatever it can get lol.
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Unread 11-22-2019, 02:46 PM   #6
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Default Re: Help! A few questions on an engine rebuild 78 Harley

Using 2 sealed bearings is good. HD just wanted you to be sure there was a seal on both ends of the stack. You were able to order bearings with just one seal because there were less expensive and now most sealed bearings come with both sides sealed because they have the proper lubricant inside for the life of the bearing.
I make my own gaskets which I prefer but I have used the silicone gasket method with good results.
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Unread 11-22-2019, 05:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: Help! A few questions on an engine rebuild 78 Harley

Thanks for the input tew45.... You just gave me the "AHH-HAA" moment I've been looking for.....

I'm so used to seeing open bearings with a crankshaft seal on the outside I hadn't thought of it as a stack with a seal on both sides, but yes that's what it is and makes sense now. The open inner bearing was covered on one side by the inner seal tight against it so no room for grease to escape, and the other side of it is against the spacer block which has no room for grease to escape due to it's full block design. Then the outer bearing could be one sided with the open side towards the spacer block....

Thank you for opening my eyes on this one. I will be using completely sealed bearings anyway for even more protection, But at least now I realize what they were thinking.
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Unread 11-22-2019, 08:43 PM   #8
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Default Re: Help! A few questions on an engine rebuild 78 Harley

If you decide to go gasketless I would use an anaerobic sealer rather than a silicone.
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Unread 11-23-2019, 10:06 AM   #9
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Default Re: Help! A few questions on an engine rebuild 78 Harley

Oh I definitely will and always do on cases, I hate silicone. I mean, it does have some uses (very limited) but I've seen people use it like it's a miracle drug lol. The only good thing about it is it's fairly easy to remove ...

I ordered parts this week, bearings/shims/seals/head-base gaskets along with new rings etc. I was back and forth on getting the case gaskets that are available but finally decided to go without them, Thanks

I'm also going to modify the way the intake manifold/carb assembly and air horn all attach to the case, this one had long bolts instead of long studs. I'm going with short studs just for the manifold with 1" deep connector nuts, then either bolts or all-thread with nuts from there for the air horn to carb. Hope that made sense lol
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Unread 11-24-2019, 11:44 AM   #10
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Default Re: Help! A few questions on an engine rebuild 78 Harley

Update;
I received the parts order yesterday, Yippee!! Wow that was surprisingly fast, now the fun begins
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