need help with a h.d cart

beninlou

need some opions what to do next on this cart.its a late 60's h.d 3 wheel gas cart.picked it up and it been sitting 4 years i cleaned tank all new gas lines and filter cleaned carb.wasnt firing so i sanded points and got it firing.now my problem is everytime i start it i have to use choke.while riding i can turn the choke off and it will run fine for about a min or so then cut out.have to re chike it to start it back up. should i rebuild the carb and another question is could weak spark cause this problem.after sitting for a couple days i have to mess with the points to get it firing again.thanks in advance for any help these forums are very helpful to the shade tree mechanic

BGW

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clydegoat

sounds like you could do really good with a good tune up,napa has carb kits, for just gaskets for just under $7 bucks, and points tune up kits are about$15 to $20, so for about $25 I'd suggest to do that. I noticed on here some where some one has posted the parts numbers for getting the points and condens. at Napa. Haven't tried it my self but plan to this weekend.

Whitespider

Take the cover off the points/condenser and watch the points as you crank the engine... if'n you're seeing spark at the points the condenser is shot, which will cause weak spark and tear up the points contacts. If it looks like the original plug wire, or even an old wire, replace it... and stick a new plug in it for sure. If you really wanna' do it right, a new coil ain't a bad idea, any 12-volt automotive with internal resistor is fine. Late 60's engines had a low(er) compression head (1971 and earlier), if it ain't makin' strong spark, it ain't gonna' run.

I wish I could help you with the points/condenser numbers but I didn't write them down... I do remember they were old chevy 6-cylinder. I just carted them down to the parts house and matched them up. Point gap is .022 inch... if it's timed correctly. Your late 60's may not even use the same points/condenser as my '74.

You've got a couple choices for a spark plug, which will be a different "reach" than mine because of the different head configuration. What are you using for a gasoline/oil fuel ratio? Originally, the specs called for 85:1 using Harley Davidson 2-cycle oil... using other, such as chain saw, lawn mower and outboard ratios at 40:1, 50:1, etc. will probably require the hotter plug. Do you know how to "read" a 2-cycle spark plug? I'm using Opti-2 oil, mixed just as the packaging suggests, which is 100:1 and it runs fine with near zero smoke... I'm running a colder plug. Anyway, on the "hot" side you'll want a Champion RH10C or an NGK B-4L... on the cold side you'll want a Champion RH8C or an NGK B-6L. I believe (not 100% sure) an Autolite 4316 should put you somewhere between those. Plug gap for your engine should be .040-.045 inch.

Personally, I'd make 100% sure I had strong, crisp spark before messing much with the carb... the carbs are pretty simple, other than the diaphragms not much can go wrong there.

DOOmsman

When you cleaned the carb did you take it apart all the way and use
torch tip cleaners in all the jets and holes?
The need for choking is a sign of lean. Not enough fuel or an air leak.
Pull the fuel line at the carb and crank it over to check for a strong fuel
flow.

beninlou

Yeh I cleaned the carb good soaked all nite cleaned all pasages with the wire. I think I'm gonna start at the points because I can see spark at the points when it's running for sure.

beninlou

also after looking up serial number i was wrong on the year its a 76

Whitespider

DOOmsman,

The fuel pump on these things is inside the carburetor, pulling the fuel line at the carb and and cranking the engines will not result in anything meaningful. The carb sits higher than the fuel tank, so pulling the line and lowering the end of it below fuel level so fuel flows out the hose (no need to crank engine) only proves there isn't a restriction in the fuel supply to the carb.

Because the fuel level is below the carb, I think we can assume the fuel pump is working because it will start and run, even run "for a minute or so" with the choke off. Needing the choke to restart isn't surprising because the engine isn't getting up to temperature... also, weak spark would require a richer fuel/air mixture to get it running again.

I'm leaning in the direction of ignition... it sounds as though something is warming up in the spark/ignition circuit and going "open", such as a coil, plug, plug wire, etc. A bad set of points or condenser would only serve to accelerate this condition.

Now, that's not to say there isn't something not quite right about the fuel delivery system... but I doubt that's what's causing it to "cut out" after running "for a minute or so." Although there is one possibility... it could be the fuel tank vent (located in the cap) is plugged, which would cause a vacuum in the tank, starving the engine for fuel. That's easy enough to check, just leave the cap loose, or off, and see if it stays running.

An air leak, or more correctly a vacuum leak, will cause problems... but normally a 2-cycle won't run at all with the choke off when there's a significant vacuum leak, a minor leak usually won't cause it to "cut out" after a "a minute or so" but rather just run a bit poorly.

The fact that he needed to sand the points, just to get it to fire at all, is another clue directing me to an ignition/spark system problem.

Whitespider

If it's a '76 ignore the spark plug info I posted earlier... it don't apply.

beninlou

thanks for the help im gonna replace points and condensor today with a new plug and see what happens. and it will run longer then a min as long as i leave choke on i can ride it around but i have to choke about halfway and it runs rich.

DOOmsman

Thanks Spider, I jumped in about a cart i'm not familiar with.