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Old 04-14-2014, 08:23 PM   #1
Jwetovick
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Default 79 help with compression

Hello everyone. First time poster but have read a TON of info on here. I have been trying to piece diff threads together to solve my issue but after getting a bit confused i wanted to start own thread. Im no big mechanic but do tinker some. After cleaning carb, new points, condensor, plug, wire, both belts, air and fuel filter im getting fire but no fuel. I have timing where it needs to be according to manual. Compression is my problem testing at 45 in forward and 60 in reverse. After pulling exhaust i can see all three rings are still there. There are a few small chunks missing from the piston between the bottom and middle ring. The cylinder and rest of the piston look fairly good however ive never done this before so not 100 percent sure what they should look like after years of use. There does seem to be a fair amount of play when i push on piston through exhaust hole. My biggest deal is i think i can replace a jug, piston, and rings but i dont want to have to mess with tearing engine apart and do seals, bearing etc. as i dont have enough time nor all the special tools. The cart is all painted and new seats etc so i dont want to give up completely yet. However i dont want to put another 150 into it and still not run worth a darn or i will just cut my loss now and sell it. Please help!!! By the way i dont see any signs of any oil/gas leaking from either seal at this point. Any help is appreciated! Thanks
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:50 AM   #2
Craigs carts
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Default Re: 79 help with compression

If your seeing pieces of the piston missing it's time for a top end rebuild. if the crank seals are bad you'll most likely see an oily, dirty build up around the seal.
with exhaust removed turn motor over till piston is at bottom and look inside the jug with a flashlight. any vertical scratches will tell you a piston or ring has gone south. you can also pull the head and see if it's full of small pits from the pieces hitting it.
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:40 AM   #3
Jwetovick
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Default Re: 79 help with compression

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Originally Posted by Craigs carts View Post
If your seeing pieces of the piston missing it's time for a top end rebuild. if the crank seals are bad you'll most likely see an oily, dirty build up around the seal.
with exhaust removed turn motor over till piston is at bottom and look inside the jug with a flashlight. any vertical scratches will tell you a piston or ring has gone south. you can also pull the head and see if it's full of small pits from the pieces hitting it.
Thanks for the info. Yes when the piston is all the way down the cylinder doesn't really have that many gouges that can be seen. The thing is, I'm not apposed to spending the $140 at this point for the entire kit and just do it. My fear though is that I get the top end done and then the lower end needs work. I've never really read on here a good way to test the seals to see if they are in need. As mentioned I don't see any oil/gas leaking from anywhere so hoping those are still good. thanks again, keep the ideas coming.
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Old 04-15-2014, 09:49 AM   #4
Dave Box
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Default Re: 79 help with compression

I'm not an H-D guy but I do know 2 strokes. I would have to say that if you rebuild the top end and do not at the least replace the main bearings and seals you will be heading down the road that leads to heartbreak, misery and tears. Seriously I believe you should do all or nothing.

Just my $0.02

Dave
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Old 04-15-2014, 10:23 AM   #5
Jwetovick
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Default Re: 79 help with compression

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Box View Post
I'm not an H-D guy but I do know 2 strokes. I would have to say that if you rebuild the top end and do not at the least replace the main bearings and seals you will be heading down the road that leads to heartbreak, misery and tears. Seriously I believe you should do all or nothing.

Just my $0.02

Dave
Thats what I was afraid of hearing. I'm sure you are correct and common sense says to do this I just don't trust my skills enough to do all that nor do i have pullers, etc. So, either i sell the cart now or do a top end and run it til it dies and then worry about selling at that point?? Decisions, decisions.
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Old 04-15-2014, 02:59 PM   #6
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Default Re: 79 help with compression

Well, again, this is what I would do but not necessarily what you might want to do. If your back is up for it grab the drive clutch and try to lift the engine. If you see or feel any movement between the crankshaft and the crankcase your bearings are worn and will need to be replaced, at this stage you might want to sell the cart.

If the bearings feel good then remove the head and the cylinder, grab the connecting rod and see if you can feel any play in the big end. If you do then you will need a new crankshaft and I guess that is game over.

If you think that the bottom end is sound, well it's now your call buddy.

As I say this is just my opinion, your experience may vary.

Dave
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Old 04-15-2014, 03:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: 79 help with compression

Clone it...
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Old 04-15-2014, 03:35 PM   #8
Jwetovick
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Default Re: 79 help with compression

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Box View Post
Well, again, this is what I would do but not necessarily what you might want to do. If your back is up for it grab the drive clutch and try to lift the engine. If you see or feel any movement between the crankshaft and the crankcase your bearings are worn and will need to be replaced, at this stage you might want to sell the cart.

If the bearings feel good then remove the head and the cylinder, grab the connecting rod and see if you can feel any play in the big end. If you do then you will need a new crankshaft and I guess that is game over.

If you think that the bottom end is sound, well it's now your call buddy.

As I say this is just my opinion, your experience may vary.

Dave
Thanks Dave. I actually did mess around a bit with the drive clutch as far as feeling for any play. I don't seem to feel any play at all up/down or side to side. The only slight play I feel is moving it towards the front and rear of the cart (in/out so to speak). Not sure if this is good or not? thanks again for the advice
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Old 04-15-2014, 06:42 PM   #9
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Default Re: 79 help with compression

I have no stats to back this up but I would be willing to bet that just doing the top end on these carts takes care of 80% of compression issues. I definitely see Dave's point but, at the same time, I don't like the thought of fixing things that don't necessarily need fixing. I would try the top end only and see where that gets you. Doing so on my '80 got me from 45 to 95 psi and on my '85 it got me from 50 to 95.

You'll be able to do the top end in an hour or two and a kit costs all of about $150. It's not like you'll have a ton of time and money invested in it if you end up having to do more. The bottoms of these engines are pretty stable, crank seals notwithstanding.
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Old 04-15-2014, 08:03 PM   #10
Jwetovick
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Default Re: 79 help with compression

First dumb question. What special socket does a guy need to take off the head bolts. None of my sockets fit. As in the 3/4 sockets i have are too big around. Thanks
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