Gas versus electric

passthrough

Brand new here...First post...It's a long one. Liking the place so far. I'm a member of a lot of message boards and this one seems a little different than most. I haven't seen the bickering and fanboy stuff going on....Nice to see.

I have done a bunch of searching here and have found partial answers. I thought I would put all my question in one place and see what I come up with.

Looking to get my first cart. It will be used mainly for campground running and as a hunting cart. I have been looking at the lifted cart forum and the extreme DC forum. Here's why. The resort wher I have my seasonal is also a hunt club, we have access to the all property for hunting. I'm a deer and turkey hunter. The resort would like to see the residents using electrics, although not mandatory if I can make a gasser quiet. After lurking in the extreme DC forum I see that there is some hope for me in the DC realm. I was stuck on getting a gasser since I made the decision to get a cart instead of an atv, as the other thing I do some of is bear hunting. That type of hunting really requires a different type of vehicle as the runs to the baits are typically many miles and the terrain is rough and I don't like the prospects of being out at a bait that is 15 miles out and getting my pickup stuck on a narrow muddy road....been there, done that.

I don't have the money to have both a cart and an atv and the resort won't allow atv's on most of it's trails due to noise and damage. So a cart is the best choice and will allow side by side seating.

So to the question..

Gas or electric??

I need range and low noise, some speed, but high speed not that important. Where we bear hunt is remote and charging time will be limited. Lifted is best as some of the terrain could be a little rough. The light weight of a cart will allow me to get to any place I would need to go.


Gas questions:
How much tlc will a gasser need??
Are there storage issues over winter??
How much "hop up" can be done to a stock engine?? Like I said, high speed isn't super important. If I can go 20-25 on a gravel road, that would be great.
Best gasser brand to go with??
Economical lift options??
Cost for a usable starting point??
Other things to consider going to gas??

Electric questions:
Can I realistically build an electric that will go 20+ mph and have a 40 mile range??
On dirt roads with bigger tires (not huge, maybe 22" or 23")??
Will 8 hours of charge time a day be enough to keep me going for a week solid after making a 30+ mile round trip that day??
I have been reading more batteries with smaller voltages per battery are the way to go...True??...
How big to go?? 48v?? 64v?? 72v??
Solid state electronics became the industry standard when??
I don't think I want anything with resistors...True??
Economical lift options??
Cost for a usable starting point??
Best Electric brand to go with??
Other things to consider going to electric??

Thanks for any info. Looking forward to seeing what you think.

Also, this is on somewhat of a budget. I want to try and get a usable cart cheap and mod from there. I can do most of the work my self. Is that the way to go?? I don't see plunking down $4k-$5k or more for a cart that is ready to go. I don't have that kind of money for something like this to spend at one time and truthfully, not my style.

Glen

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csason

Sounds like you have a lot of concerns..

I understand completely..

That being the case, I would advise you to go and drive some carts..get a real
idea of what it sounds like, acts like, and just exactly how far do you think those batteries will go (if you went electric)

Noise is an issue with me too, but not to the extent you are talking about.

I would go drive some. You make think that the sun sets in a Club Car or a Yamaha once you drive one, me, I just like EZGO, it's like a Ford/Chevy/Mopar
thing..

there, I said it.

Gale Hawkins

passthought that is a well thought out post.

We just went through this but our needs are more simple than yours. It was first a very old used Yamaha two-stroke then a 1996 EZGO electric. In the end we trailered home a 2007 EZGO PDS electric cart for about the same money.

So far so good. I have been shocked at how quite yet very powerful the shunt motor can be but this is the only non gas cart I have driven. We got it for a run about on our 15 acres and to do driver's ed with our two kids.

We may trailer it to parks behind the RV sometimes and as you noted 'gas' is loosing traction in the areas pushing 'greenest'.

We have done 20 miles at max 13 MPH speed (we are stock with 06 batteries). Your range/speed needs sounds like gas to me. Also batteries weigh like lead.

$$$ and time wise a used ATV may be much cheaper to haul deer out of the woods. Converting golf carts into ATV's is cool I agree but not cheap.

If you buy a used ATV and then they say NO gas you can always quickly sell it I expect.

If you think you will be required to use electric there or other places soon OR want to get on the "NO GAS" trails now then look at electric now.

Do you have a place to recharge the batteries when not riding. If so then you have other options to increase your range by getting back to 80% SOC (state of charge) in a few hours.

Clearly you want no less than a 48 volt cart I would think for that speed/range.

http://cgi.ebay.com/BLACK-DECKER-4-1...item335a840e41 I am stocking up on this charger since WM has dropped the line. I currently have had two for the past three years without issues after thousands of hours of use other than the little muffin cooling fans expiring.

The main thing I like about this line of charger is they have a Desulfate mode that has permitted me to get years of added service by recovering lost run times with age but it is an awesome 12 volt charger. The 4/10/20/40 amp options are great when there is a need for fast jucing of a battery.

I know a guy with a 5th wheel RV that uses four of these with a 2000 Honda inverter type generator when camping without AC to keep down his generator run time. Under max load (the very start of a charging cycle) these B&D can pull up to 490 watts but typically our Kill-A-Watt meter reports the use of about 350 watts like an RV frig on electric.

Keep in mind rapid charging of deep cycle batteries requires more than just plugging them up to keep down the damage to them but working within technical limits is what makes electric carting so loved on this site.

Based our our work with this B&D line of charger using the Desulfate Mode on our 48 volt battery bank for our UPS for the computer server room we were able to regain 50% of our lost run time after using the Desulf Mode for three 24 hour cycle on each of the four batteries per the manual.

This 48v/115 AH bank new will last about 1 hour under our standard load. When run time had decreased to under 30 minutes we did the B&D Desulf Mode feature and run time recovered to 45 minutes and that lasted for about one year. I am going to do them again and see how much run time if any we can recover. They are to the point the charger will never kick off because it can not get them to 53.5 volts. It will get them to 53.3 but that extra .2 volts is required for the charger to release and go into rest mode.

passthrough this has turned into a book but seeing all the effort you have put into deciding for gas/electric I wanted to encourge you that electric is doable IF locations are pushing to move people to electric. We just got our cart last month so my years of being a student of lead acid deep cycle battery technology comes more the computer and RV areas AND killing a lot of batteries. :(

In both of these industries the key is max run times with shortest recharge time measures in hours and not overnight like the country club carts.

scottyb

Get a stock Ezgo workhorse late 90s -early 2000 put a 4 inch drop axle lift on it and go go go. Don't worry about recharging or weighing 1000 pounds. They are quiet. I used one for years before upgrading it to a 25hp big block.... your terrain is steep and your distances are far. Take it from me get gas.

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chuddly

definatly go with gas....last thing you want to do is have dead batteries way far away from everything. with a gas cart you just strap a spare can on it and you are never stranded. Im running a 2 stroke yamaha (wich you dont want because they are louder) but gas will do those speeds and work all day long and get up the next day and do it all again.

passthrough

A lot, maybe...Just trying to make an informed decision. It is really apparent that there are many on this board that are well informed on both sides. So let's hear it...Gas or electric.....

It is the middle of winter here in Minnesota so driving carts is not an option. and I wouldn't know where to even start looking for someone with a modded cart, gas or electric. It's not like I need to go buy one tomorrow or anything either, just looking to get informed....

Most of the use wil be at the resort, for turkey and deer hunting and camping, running around within a mile or two of the trailer. And like I stated, the resort would like to see electric but doesn't require it (yet). I would think I could add an aftermarket product like a Benji's silent rider muffler (used primarily on atvs) to quiet the gasser while using it there. The bear hunting we do is typically in northern Minnesota or canada and hops to the baits can be lengthy....I know our minnesota spot, we have on bait that is 17 miles out, mostly gravel road, but a half mile of rough muddy trail...Our canada spot is about the same to the farthest spot, mosly by gravel road.

So electric fans....Are my requirement realistic?? On a budget??

Gas fans....I am more confident I can meet my requirements with a gasser. How much modification to a stock motor would it require?? Shoud I expect the normal issues of any other gas powered toy..I would think so. Honestly, this is something I would rather not have to deal with much. Or will I on either side??

What should I expect for a cost (ballpark) of a "starter" cart...gas or electric??

Don't want to start a ford/chevy fued but just wanting to know what is reliable....


Thanks again,

Glen

reinman88

As mentioned above a cart like a workhorse would be perfect for what you want. I asked this same question a couple weeks ago when I went looking to buy my first cart. I won't have as rough of conditions as you, but I know I have at least one big steep hill I need to get up every time out. If noise is a concern, as it was for me, you need to find someone with a gas cart and listen to it run. I've used a 4 wheeler in the past for hunting, and this is so much quieter. Not as quiet as electric, but a big improvement over an ATV.

I found a 99 workhorse with a good engine, compression tested at 165, for $1550. For me my main expense to have it ready for hunting will be offset rims, which are under $25 each, and new tires to get better traction, which I've found for under $65 each. Of course I have many other changes planned, but they aren't a necessity as far as hunting goes, it's just I want to do them.

Many will put on a lift kit, but I'm going to hold off for now and see how things go. You can lift the cart as high as you want, but the back axle will not be lifted, and to me clearance is clearance, be it the whole frame or just the back axle. I didn't want to go with too big of tires because the motor will have a harder time pulling a cart with bigger tires, at least after what I've read on the forum here it appears that way. So for me it would be 22 or 23 inch tires if I did a lift. Without a lift I'd go with 20 inch tires.

My back axle has 5 inches of clearance. With 22 inch tires and a lift kit it will have 7 inches of clearance. With 20 inch tires and no lift kit it will have 6 inches of clearance. For me, it's not worth spending over $300 to gain 1 inch of clearance at the back axle.

If you're going to be going through a lot of deep water where the belt might get wet, it's a different story. Now a lift kit gets the belt higher, where it may stay drier. In the end this may be the reason I end up with a lift kit.

Somewhere along the line you're probably going to get stuck, so a winch is a must. I plan to mount a receiver hitch on the front and back of my cart. At Wal Mart I've found a 2000# portable winch for $60. Basically you slip a plate bolted to the winch over a 2" ball. I figure this way I can either pull myself ahead, or pull myself back, whichever is easier. Of course the disadvantage is storing the winch on board since it isn't bolted to the cart. On my workhorse under the box behind the back axle there is a good sized area where I think I can mount a box that will hold the winch, and maybe a small toolkit.

joe100

I'm electrics all the way but in your case I'd do Gas but also look into UTV thats a side by side gas also made in electrics Polarse I think makes a nice one but it cost's likebis time. Good luck to you. Joe

chuddly

I have a gas that lifted about 6" with 22" tires and i can go about anywhere in it. I also have a 2000# winch mounted to the front end of it under the cowl. I am confident if i wanted to go anywhere i can and not worry about it. Go with gas and a little lift and some meat on your tires and you will be thrilled.

dougmcp

I don't know of an electric cart that would do this 35 mile round trip on gravel and mud, gas is your only option.