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Old 03-26-2014, 08:44 PM   #1
KillerCC
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Default My fix for yamaha G16 camber issue

So I know a lot of people are having camber issues after they've installed an A-arm lift. This is caused by weak front springs, so your options are to either replace the front spring/shock assembly, compress the spring and install a 2 price collar to keep it compressed or do what I did on a friends cart. I replaced his rear shocks and springs with the HD ones sold on ebay (under $100 for the pair) and then used the old rear ones to replace the fronts. This is how it turned out. Before, after and side view.
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Old 03-26-2014, 08:45 PM   #2
KillerCC
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Default Re: My fix for yamaha G16 camber issue

Basically if you find a pair of used rear shocks, you can use them in the front and your camber should be fixed.
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Old 03-26-2014, 08:54 PM   #3
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Default Re: My fix for yamaha G16 camber issue

that sucks ya gota buy more parts to make it right. what are these cheep $99 4" kits could I run 20" tires with a 4" lift
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Old 03-26-2014, 09:26 PM   #4
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Default Re: My fix for yamaha G16 camber issue

Its not the fault of the lift, its that the springs are too weak.
the 4 inch lifts use spacers to move the lower control arms down. This lift doesnt affect the camber.
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Old 03-27-2014, 06:23 AM   #5
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Default Re: My fix for yamaha G16 camber issue

yeah I figured it was cause of old springs im just trying to keep the cost down as this is only a part time toy we will only get to use it 5-6 times pr yr.
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Old 03-28-2014, 08:48 AM   #6
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Default Re: My fix for yamaha G16 camber issue

This is a good fix! The rear shock trick does work.

With that said, here is what I've learned about these Yamaha front ends. The problem is a little more complicated.

First problem: Part of the issue is a flaw in the design of the single a arm (also called swing arm) suspension. In a swing arm front suspension, the a arm swings when traveling, meaning it doesn't move just up and down, but also side to side. This creates what's called "tire scrub". When off road on loose surfaces, the tire is able to slide and doesn't have issues. But on the road, the pavement offers a resistance that creates problems with free movement of the tire. This scrub causes sketchy handling at high speeds on pavement. Adding lift raises the center of gravity, making the problem more dangerous. So be careful.

Second problem: Because of this tire scrub, the suspension will not "rebound" freely when on pavement. If you jump up and down on the front suspension on concrete or asphalt, the suspension compresses, spreading the tires farther apart. The tires want to "grip" the pavement and have a hard time rebounding. So in this case, lifting up on the front end typically corrects the squat. Stiffer springs help reduce the squat by giving more resistance to compression, and also greater rebound force. So in this case your fix will help.

Third problem: Toe settings can also cause problems. When you set up your steering, you want just a tiny bit of toe in. If you have too much, your suspension will squat when you back up in reverse. This is also caused by the tires scrub. In reverse, the tires are actually pointed away from each other and they want to follow a straight line, which are not parallel lines. This is why them may try to move away from each other, and the suspension gives and compresses as a result. If you have weak springs, this will happen more easily. So adding more tension will often help.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:06 AM   #7
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Default Re: My fix for yamaha G16 camber issue

So what do you thing about the double a arm suspension? Heim joints are able to compensate for the suspension movement, maintaining a more constant camber/toe alignment.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:18 AM   #8
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Default Re: My fix for yamaha G16 camber issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by slonomo View Post
This is a good fix! The rear shock trick does work.

With that said, here is what I've learned about these Yamaha front ends. The problem is a little more complicated.

First problem: Part of the issue is a flaw in the design of the single a arm (also called swing arm) suspension. In a swing arm front suspension, the a arm swings when traveling, meaning it doesn't move just up and down, but also side to side. This creates what's called "tire scrub". When off road on loose surfaces, the tire is able to slide and doesn't have issues. But on the road, the pavement offers a resistance that creates problems with free movement of the tire. This scrub causes sketchy handling at high speeds on pavement. Adding lift raises the center of gravity, making the problem more dangerous. So be careful.

Second problem: Because of this tire scrub, the suspension will not "rebound" freely when on pavement. If you jump up and down on the front suspension on concrete or asphalt, the suspension compresses, spreading the tires farther apart. The tires want to "grip" the pavement and have a hard time rebounding. So in this case, lifting up on the front end typically corrects the squat. Stiffer springs help reduce the squat by giving more resistance to compression, and also greater rebound force. So in this case your fix will help.

Third problem: Toe settings can also cause problems. When you set up your steering, you want just a tiny bit of toe in. If you have too much, your suspension will squat when you back up in reverse. This is also caused by the tires scrub. In reverse, the tires are actually pointed away from each other and they want to follow a straight line, which are not parallel lines. This is why them may try to move away from each other, and the suspension gives and compresses as a result. If you have weak springs, this will happen more easily. So adding more tension will often help.
AWESOME write up Slo! Made me think about how when I adjust my front ends, I tend to do this in the garage on the concrete floor, and with carpet under them. Now, I go out and run it in the dirt and it is different than moving the cart around on the concrete to get suspension to level out. It also explains why the G16 on dirt feels much more comfortable on dirt, vs. getting out on the street and doing 50mph. Your write up should be stickied...

I've also noticed that with adjustable front ATV shocks, this makes a major difference on camber - depending on what settings (hard vs. soft) you have the shocks on.
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Old 03-28-2014, 09:28 AM   #9
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Default Re: My fix for yamaha G16 camber issue

One more thing to add: The G8 and the G16 front stock suspension is the same design...On the G8 I have the Jakes 6" single A-arm setup. I've switched between about 5 pairs of shocks and have moved the shock mounts to about three locations, constantly moving the lower shock location on the a-arms, and STILL have camber problems. I now have the / \ fixed in forward, but not backwards. Now, on the G16 I used Pachanga's idea's of just moving the lower pivot point down by six inches, using a receiver tube. I also moved the suspension point forward by two inches, mounted the shocks and its perfect, right off the bat....Not sure if my particular Jakes A-arms or bad or what, but they ain't right...
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Old 03-28-2014, 04:58 PM   #10
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Default Re: My fix for yamaha G16 camber issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerCC View Post
So what do you thing about the double a arm suspension? Heim joints are able to compensate for the suspension movement, maintaining a more constant camber/toe alignment.
An atv double wishbone suspension is just what these carts need, on road or off road. The double setup allows the camber to stay constant throughout the suspension travel, with the help of ball joints or heim joints. Heim joints are good because they can be setup many ways with misalignment spacers and with the threads on the heims. My next suspension will use this design. But I engineered my own atv suspension into my G1, and it's fantastic. Increased the travel by 6", softer ride, better handling, and the steering is flawless. Also, no camber problems and no bumpsteer.
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