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Unread 01-30-2016, 05:17 PM   #21
Getting Wild
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Seattle,WA /Sebastian,FL
Posts: 96
Default Re: Lithium Conversion (leaf battery)

I finally got some time to work on the golf cart project today. and took a few pictures.
I had to clean the battery acid cancer, then paint. Luckily it was only on the surface and the battery tray was in reasonable good condition.
I had to modify the factory pot box/controller mounting and put a z bend in the throttle rod as the new mounting location is ~2" higher and above the battery tray.
I added aluminum diamond plate over the battery tray as the batteries are different size than the original lead acid battery case and needed a flat mounting surface. I then secured the Aluminum plate to the old battery tray.

I now have a mocked up of the motor controller, main contactor, reversing contactor, DC-DC converter (voltage reducer) and the onboard charger.

I am still not happy with the placement of the reversing contactor, but may have no choice as I could not fit the main contactor and reversing contactor over by the controller, not enough room and sits too high, interfering with the seat. These are BIG relays!!! I also wanted to keep all high current cabling very short to minimize resistance loss.

I still have to mount the main battery fuse, current sense for the BMS and BMS. Then make the new battery cables at 2AWG plus all of the miscellaneous wiring.
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Unread 01-30-2016, 05:33 PM   #22
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Yamaha
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Rio Verde, Az
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Default Re: Lithium Conversion (leaf battery)

Nice. I just upgraded my Yamaha to Alltrax XCT to go with my 14 Lithium Cell pack. The stock controller was about to die - did not like the fully charged pack! I just got the controller dialed in - max motor RPM set to 4000 (I have 8:1 gears) It now tops out at 27MPH with that setting. (Measured with my cell phone App) The 500A controller is set to 400A Max - recommended for stock motor. I set the Min Voltage to 42V or 3V per cell to protect the pack from under voltage. I had to flatten the throttle curve somewhat to get the throttle response I wanted. It's nice to be able to dial in those things!
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Unread 01-30-2016, 07:21 PM   #23
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Seattle,WA /Sebastian,FL
Posts: 96
Default Re: Lithium Conversion (leaf battery)

That sounds good with the 14 module setup.
I am hoping that my 16 module is up to the task. By all calculations it should be good
Do you have an onboard charger or offboard?

What are your impressions so far with your own setup?
Would you change anything?
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Unread 01-31-2016, 09:22 AM   #24
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Default Re: Lithium Conversion (leaf battery)

I am keeping my charger offboard. I adapted the charger cable to use the old cable that my cart uses so that I can plug it into the old socket. I recommend offboard with that lithium charger. I have the same one you have. I would not trust it to be subjected to the vibration that it would get in a cart. It is not all that rugged IMO.
The batteries are great so far. I use about 30AH playing a round of golf so 120 is plenty for me. The 14 module battery weighs 120 pounds - about what two of my 8V FLA batteries weighed so my cart is about 250 pounds lighter. That is a good thing and a bad thing. It is sprung for the extra weight so it rides rougher like a pickup with no load in the bed. It accelerates much faster being lighter. I just installed the Alltrax controller so I do not have enough run time to say how much better it is than the stock one. I think it is much better. I like the regen breaking which my stock controller did not do. (and the regen recovers some of the energy used in slowing down) I have taken a bunch of pix and I plan to start a thread when I get my battery meter installed. I ran with my laptop hooked up yesterday and it was cool to monitor all of the voltages and currents while running. You can see the controller modulating the field current and armature current and you can see the throttle position and motor RPM. Only problem is it is almost impossible to see my laptop screen when the sun is out! Top speed with my final settings was about 27 MPH according to my phone App which I cross checked against my car spedo. That is as fast as I want to go. I dialed the max motor RPM down to 4000 from 6000 to achieve that. The throttle response was way too harsh with the higher max RPM setting. Even with that setting I still modified the throttle curve a bit to soften it at the bottom. Now it is nice and smooth starting out but it gets up and goes if you punch it.
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Unread 01-31-2016, 11:37 AM   #25
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Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Seattle,WA /Sebastian,FL
Posts: 96
Default Re: Lithium Conversion (leaf battery)

Thanks for the comments.
I will consider moving the charger off board. I like your idea of using the old charge connector.
I have a couple of old 1kw 30V PFC power supplies that I can series for fast off board charging to, but is another build and I want to get the cart going first.

Please start a thread with pix of you built, I would like to see your layout/setup.
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Unread 01-31-2016, 12:39 PM   #26
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Default Re: Lithium Conversion (leaf battery)

I took the cord off of my old Yamaha charger to use for my off board setup. My charger came with an Anderson 50 Amp connector on it so I just bought a couple of them to put on my cord to connect to the charger and on the wires on the cart to connect to the battery pack connector. I am working on that project today. So far I have had to put the seat up to get to the charging connector that came with the battery pack.
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Unread 01-31-2016, 03:49 PM   #27
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Default Re: Lithium Conversion (leaf battery)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt_Ampere View Post
-------snip-----------
1. I ran with my laptop hooked up yesterday and it was cool to monitor all of the voltages and currents while running. You can see the controller modulating the field current and armature current and you can see the throttle position and motor RPM. Only problem is it is almost impossible to see my laptop screen when the sun is out!

2. Top speed with my final settings was about 27 MPH according to my phone App which I cross checked against my car spedo. That is as fast as I want to go. I dialed the max motor RPM down to 4000 from 6000 to achieve that.

3. The throttle response was way too harsh with the higher max RPM setting. Even with that setting I still modified the throttle curve a bit to soften it at the bottom. Now it is nice and smooth starting out but it gets up and goes if you punch it.
1. It is also next to impossible to look at the laptop with one eye and the road with the other.

I let the laptop log the file and review it later.
Use the "continuous" sampling rate, that give you the best picture of what's happening.

I'd love lay my hands on a copy of the csv file and see how the Li batteries react to loading.

2. When, or if, I go to 48V or Li, I'll be limiting my RPM to give me a max speed of about 25 MPH also. I have no need or desire to go faster than that in a short wheelbase, narrow track vehicle.

3. I left the throttle Speed and Torque curves more or less at the default settings and modified the Throttle Linearization curve (Screen-print attached) so pushing the pedal half way down physically only gives me 30% throttle (roughly resembles a 30:70 audio taper) and cut way back on the Throttle Rate.
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Unread 01-31-2016, 05:49 PM   #28
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Default Re: Lithium Conversion (leaf battery)

More progress today.
I bolted down all of the bottom plate, then set the batteries in there final position.

Then I noticed that the top of the batteries are ~0.25" above the seat rail. !@#$%^&* !!!!
I did not want to re-orient the batteries in the horizontal position (not service/access friendly) and I didn't want to go back and get more box tubing to raise the seat rail 1", so I started looking around the garage.


Low and behold, I had the left over 1" sq tubing from the dump bed on the trailer that I did not use. As it turns out it was almost formed perfectly to fit around the seat edge.
I inserted the thing a vice, connected an extension, heated the bends with a propane torch very carefully and bent the ~115 degrees bends to 90 degrees.
It worked just like a charm.
Then because the U was a little small. I cut it in the middle of the U and then mounted it all on the seat rail. See pictures.

Now I have about 0.75" clearance between the seat and batteries. The seat bottom is wood and with the plastic covers over the terminals, there is no chance of an accidental arc/short. that would cause a real "HOT" seat.

Tomorrow, I get the mount the reversing contactor and screw in the batteries into the final place. Then start making cables.
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Unread 02-04-2016, 07:59 PM   #29
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Default Re: Lithium Conversion (leaf battery)

More progress today.
I have finished all of the wiring today. Now to verify it is all wired correctly before I install the main fuse and hopefully not let out the magic smoke. .

I did have a problem with the Orion BMS jr system, but it was my fault.
As my system is 16 LiPO cells at 67.2V max charge voltage which is > 60VDC specification for the Orion Jr system, the jr is limited to 60.0VDC.
I did call the mfg and verified BEFORE I connected one wire.
So I have to find a different system that will work with the higher voltage. The regular Orion system is 50% more cost which is really starting to hurt my wallet.

I did purchase a dual display volt/amp meter of ebay, so that gives me information while the key is on and system running.
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Unread 02-04-2016, 09:01 PM   #30
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Close to Navasota Texas
Posts: 934
Default Re: Lithium Conversion (leaf battery)

Rottie thanks for posting your progress. I am looking forward to seeing you complete it.

I am still debating my lithium upgrade and your info helps a bunch.

Any of you leaf cell guys willing to post a csv file? I would like to hear JonnieB's analysis before I pick a voltage and AH of my future conversion.
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