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Unread 09-05-2018, 01:09 PM   #11
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

i'll be subbed on this thread ...please post lot's of pictures !!!
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Unread 09-05-2018, 04:29 PM   #12
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Quote:
Originally Posted by texbama View Post
Dave
What AH are your Leaf modules? I have a similar EZGO hunting set up as you and will be following.
These are 2012 Gen 1 24WH packs. Factory AH is 7.4V 64AH rating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan33Klein View Post
Are they the 66ah modules? 7 modules should be 56v give or take?
Have you decided on an enclosure or a way to mount them yet?
The voltage (per module....as there are two cells per module) is 7.4v to 7.6v per module. So, with 7 of them the total voltage will be 51.8 to 53.2. Bringing the SOC up to about 90% will likely get me 51.0 or so volts. From what I've read it's best to not fully charge at 100% so the batteries will actually last longer.

Mounting options that I am considering is #1-1/8" Aluminum sheets to form a box, #2-1/8" Steel sheets to form a box. I have a nephew that can weld steel. #3-5/8" plywood. The plywood option is not my top choice as I go thru a lot of water 'n mud.

I'm considering "lining" the battery box with plexiglass to keep mud and water out. Then mount the battery box inside that enclosure....if you get what I'm saying.

My current thoughts are on which BMS system I should get. There is one from ZEVA and another from Chargery. I'm researching these now to make a decision.
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Unread 09-05-2018, 05:42 PM   #13
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

You may want to double-check those voltages before you order a charger and configure your BMS.

Those Gen 1 Leaf modules have 4 x 30AH cell pouches connected as 2 series of 2 parallel cells.

The nominal useable cell range is 3.65v to 4.2v, but is recommended to stay below 4.1v/cell.

That gives you a usable voltage range of 51.1v to 57.4v.

You can go lower than 3.65v, but You may want to look at the discharge graph for those cells, the "knee" on the curve becomes really steep below 3.65v and the voltage comes down pretty fast.


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Unread 09-05-2018, 05:56 PM   #14
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sergio View Post
You may want to double-check those voltages before you order a charger and configure your BMS.

Those Gen 1 Leaf modules have 4 x 30AH cell pouches connected as 2 series of 2 parallel cells.

The nominal useable cell range is 3.65v to 4.2v, but is recommended to stay below 4.1v/cell.

That gives you a usable voltage range of 51.1v to 57.4v.

You can go lower than 3.65v, but You may want to look at the discharge graph for those cells, the "knee" on the curve becomes really steep below 3.65v and the voltage comes down pretty fast.


This is what I was looking at.. roughly 8v per module giving your around 56v near full charge..
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Unread 09-05-2018, 07:01 PM   #15
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Dave, I think you may be talking about the nominal voltage per cell.

3.7 vpc (x2 for 7.4vpc) is a common nominal lithium voltage for a cell that maxes at 4.2 vpc. Watch your upper/lower limits based on your chemistry. I don't have Leaf cells so I don't know your chemistry but Sergio sounds like he does with "3.65v to 4.2v" x2 that would be 7.3v per module up to 8.4v (8.2v if you want to be safe) per module.

7 of them would give you 51.1v to 57.4v (or 58.8v if you charge to max).
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Unread 09-05-2018, 08:12 PM   #16
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

CELL SPECIFICATIONS

Cell type..................Laminate type
Cathode material......LiMn2O4 with LiNiO2
Anode material.........Graphite
Rated capacity..........(0.3C) 33.1 Ah
Average voltage........3.8 V
Length.....................11.417" (290 mm)
Width.......................8.504" (216 mm)
Thickness..................0.2795" (7.1mm)
Weight......................1.7624 lbs (799 g)

BTW.....Maximum voltage is 4.2V per cell. (Thus 8.4V per module) And yes, the low voltage number......which I don't have in front of me, I will know prior to the configuring of the BMS. I do know that going to low will kill the battery.

I believe the low voltage cutoff is 2.5V per cell. (Battery University) I will need to confirm what the "best" low setting is for cutoff.
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Unread 09-05-2018, 10:51 PM   #17
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

From what I understand the methods of killing a lithium battery are going too low on voltage, going too high on voltage, discharging faster than rated (and building heat), storing in too high a heat and charging with too much amperage (regen braking).

I don't know where you live, but ambient temp is something you often just have to deal with. The rest you have control over. It's just knowing the limits of the pack, adding a safety margin and staying within that.

Having said that, it really isn't that difficult... I had my Li batteries for months before I made the switch and really am amazed at how easy it was now that I look back. All the stuff I was worried about were complete non-issues. My biggest problem was getting past my own incorrect, pre-conceived notions about lithium!
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Unread 09-06-2018, 05:55 AM   #18
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

I agree with you 100%. On my cart, regen is a non-issue as I don't have that "option" on my cart. (Brakes are required on any downhill....it's all free-wheeling!!)

The overcharge is controlled via charger settings and the undercharge is controlled via killing power to the key switch using an interlock circuit once the undervolt cutoff setting is reached.

For my area, Southwest Pennsylvania, the hottest temps that I will be dealing with is high 80's (when hotter I just don't go out) and the low's can be in the high teens....but usually in the mid 20's to high 30's in "hunting season." FWIW

I believe I have the basic understanding to build this system and make it safe....or I would not do it. That being said I will still post questions that at face, may appear dumb......but I ask the same questions (at times) more than one way so that my understanding of the issues is complete....or at least for me.

I'm not even close to being an engineer. My "trade" was CPA\tax. Math I can do.....understanding comes to me via visual drawings with reading more than just reading. Unless it's tax code!!
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Unread 09-06-2018, 08:44 AM   #19
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Further research.....(AKA Ask BobBoyce via PM) and he states the high end should go no higher than 4.2V and the low end 2.7V. Totals are 37.8 & 58.8.

These parameters will provide the most longevity from the Leaf batteries.
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Unread 09-06-2018, 08:55 AM   #20
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveTM View Post
Further research.....(AKA Ask BobBoyce via PM) and he states the high end should go no higher than 4.2V and the low end 2.7V. Totals are 37.8 & 58.8.

These parameters will provide the most longevity from the Leaf batteries.
Bob is very sharp, and those numbers look good. I am toying with the option of lithium but my batteries are brand new. The 7 leaf modules look like a great option. Charged near full your at the higher end of what your alltraxx will take so performance should be great.

I will be following this one closely to see how you end up installing them. I hope it works out great for you
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