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Unread 01-16-2019, 09:45 AM   #371
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Thanks guys.

Hmm, anyone know off hand if the Zeva system can work with a Chargery battery charger? I'll end up contacting Ian, but just curious if anyone knows already.
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Unread 01-16-2019, 10:58 AM   #372
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

CAN Bus is what auto manufacturer's use in their vehicle builds. It's cheap...allows communication between "stuff" and is pretty easy to get enough of an understanding to be dangerous. :)

You just need to know that (for example) that in any CAN Bus setup (like the pic below shows) you need a Termination Resistor at each end of the two wires so that information sent across the wires "terminate" and don't keep looping around.

The ZEVA monitor has a built in Termination Resistor....so you just need one at the other end to make it all work.

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Unread 01-16-2019, 12:35 PM   #373
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBHC View Post
Thanks guys.

Hmm, anyone know off hand if the Zeva system can work with a Chargery battery charger? I'll end up contacting Ian, but just curious if anyone knows already.
No, it can't communicate with the Chargery. I asked Ian this around Aug/Sept of last year. The TC Charger is the only charger his BMS is designed to communicate via CANbus at this point.
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Unread 04-09-2019, 11:10 AM   #374
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rickochet View Post
Sounds like you have everything under control. I left the existing battery box in and bolted this down over the top of the existing frame then bolted the new lith pack to the plastic base. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I removed the OEM charger outlet and installed one these where the old one was. One the inside I mounted a household plastic outlet box over the backside of the outside outlet. So I have the male 120v male plug on the outside and a dual 120v standard household outlet on the inside to plug the charger into. I just use a standard extension cord to plug the cart in. https://www.amazon.com/120-Volt-Weat...herproof+Inlet
Do you still have the approximate dimensions you cut the LTPE seaboard down to so it would fit over the existing battery box? I have a 2014 EZGO 2Five and have purchased 2 pieces of 12" x 24" x 1/2" seaboard and plan on doing the same thing.
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Unread 05-12-2019, 02:18 PM   #375
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Wow, relays and diodes and tons of money spent. Must be nice to have an expensive hobby. No insult meant, just envy.

Here's the thing. I am on a fixed retirement income, also with hobbies. Unfortunately, I have to do it the cheap way.

I have purchased seven leaf modules to give me a 48/58 volt 66ah pack. I am replacing very weak Trojan lead acid batteries(6x8v).

I plan on using a cheap BMS and monitor my cells manually. Therefore, I need to know some basic specs. I know I want a 14S 48v or 58v bms but I do not know how to read their specs when it comes to what I need for my lithium pack other than that. I just need it to stop charging at a maximum voltage and turn off the drain at a minimum level. I understand that part. However, how do you read their specs when it comes to 20/30/40 amps on the description? I understand how they are to be wired, but need to know if I am buying the right board, without having to get those high dollar ones. I need the bare minimum load balancing benefit.
Second question: When it comes to lithium charging and chargers, what is the minimum charging amps that I want. There are many type of hobby chargers out there and electric bicycle rated chargers, etc. I do not feel the need for a programmable charger, just one that will charge and cut off. I understand that a BMS will cut off the charging to the individual cell once it reaches the max. I have seen chargers that span from 4amp to 15amp. I think my CC DS power drive is rated at 15 or 17amps. I know I can't use that one, just saying.
Before anyone tells me all the reasons for relays and cut off switches, I live in a community where golf carts are used daily. I have not reason to store it and if I did, then I would disconnect the battery cable.
Yes, many of you will say that I am attempting a "redneck" slop together job, but if my cart works fine with a 48v lead acid pack then why wouldn't it work well with a 48v lithium pack? Unlike some of you, I cannot get into all the schematics of the electrical system and digital monitoring via a BMS and monitor. I am going to use a simple and cheap BMS and simple lithium charger and then check my cell voltage with a hand meter.
If there is anyone out there that has the patience to "dumb" this down to my level, I am sure that GOD will reward you at a later time.
List of needed info, summarized:
Minimum specs for cheap BMS
Minimum specs for cheap charger

Sounds simple to me, but it may be hair pulling and frustrating to you. If I am "dreaming" then I have already committed to a Lithium "Leaf" pack of seven, two cell mods which is supposed to give me a rated 48+ volts.

Thank you for your patience and generosity of sharing your information.
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Unread 05-12-2019, 02:24 PM   #376
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Dont skimp on the bms, its the most important piece to the puzzle. Charger, 58.3v minimum 10amp charger $110 . Ill look for the list someone gave me of parts. My setup soup to nuts around 1500

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
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Unread 05-12-2019, 02:30 PM   #377
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Add 3-4 meters of CAN cable, unless you have something like Belden 9504 2 pr shld handy. And check the attached wiring drawing. This is the last pack installed in an RXV in which we used a Gigavac relay to protect the pack from LV and for HV charger shutoff. This is for a double pack 120AH, so I would replace the tap and module area with what you saw in the first drawing, for you.
The Gigavac contactor, get the 48V version.
http://zeva.com.au/index.php?product=136
*
Now for a list of stuff I use
Dash Voltmeter - I don't like the red or blue, you can't see them in bright sunlight - this one is green, but your choice.https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...C9B25845&psc=1
*
Terminal Boots -https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B012T3EU1A/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_6?smid=A1THAZDOWP300U&psc=1
*
Beeping Flasher for Turn Signals -https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017SJMU1W/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_7?smid=A18W40S1KX1L2P&psc=1
*(didnt use this since i didnt need it)
DC-DC Converter -https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07CYGW6PT/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=AG0KMAOE7PHFX&psc=1
*didnt need this since i already had 1
6 Ckt Blue Seas Fuse Panel - Picture is incorrect -*https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...KIKX0DER&psc=1
*didnt need this but bought it anyway not realizing i didnt nd it.
ANN Fuse Holder -https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GLL3WAM/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1
*
Black Trim Restorer - Use this on Floormat and steering wheel it is not slippery. But, don't buy it if you already use a silicone based protectant on a regular basis. You would have to clean that stuff off completely **-https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007MGIPTS/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_9?smid=A6WV3GAVFI9UY&psc=1
Before and after pic with no silicone just fade - one coat.
[https://mail] didnt get it cause not needed
*
Speedometer -https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07L4CHZTN/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
*didnt get it not needed
USB Charger Outlet -https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0082CXEI8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
*didnt get it not needed
175A Blue Anderson #2 lug -https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/879-6326G5
*
50 Gray Anderson Conn -https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/879-6319G1
*
#2 Crimp Lug 5/16 hole -https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/538-19221-0233
*
#2 Crimp Lug 3/8 hole -https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/538-19221-0235
*
12GA -2 Pin Disconnect Harness -https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B006ZOGYUU/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
*
Power Cable Shrink Tube -https://www.amazon.com/Young4us-Pack-Heat-Shrink-Tube/dp/B07BZD5T6R/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=3%2F4+shrink+tube&qid=15543034 33&s=gateway&sr=8-3
*
#2 Welding Cable -https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0167K7DO2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
*
Marinco Charge Receptacle -https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000NV0V8C/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
*
A member on here made the side plates for the pack and bottom plates for the cart.

My cart is used at a campground which is why i chose to.not order certain componants. The 7 leaf module ran me 512 shipped. Zeva was around 400 i think.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
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Unread 05-12-2019, 09:43 PM   #378
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDLNB View Post
Wow, relays and diodes and tons of money spent. Must be nice to have an expensive hobby. No insult meant, just envy.

Here's the thing. I am on a fixed retirement income, also with hobbies. Unfortunately, I have to do it the cheap way.

I have purchased seven leaf modules to give me a 48/58 volt 66ah pack. I am replacing very weak Trojan lead acid batteries(6x8v).

I plan on using a cheap BMS and monitor my cells manually. Therefore, I need to know some basic specs. I know I want a 14S 48v or 58v bms but I do not know how to read their specs when it comes to what I need for my lithium pack other than that. I just need it to stop charging at a maximum voltage and turn off the drain at a minimum level. I understand that part. However, how do you read their specs when it comes to 20/30/40 amps on the description? I understand how they are to be wired, but need to know if I am buying the right board, without having to get those high dollar ones. I need the bare minimum load balancing benefit.
Second question: When it comes to lithium charging and chargers, what is the minimum charging amps that I want. There are many type of hobby chargers out there and electric bicycle rated chargers, etc. I do not feel the need for a programmable charger, just one that will charge and cut off. I understand that a BMS will cut off the charging to the individual cell once it reaches the max. I have seen chargers that span from 4amp to 15amp. I think my CC DS power drive is rated at 15 or 17amps. I know I can't use that one, just saying.
Before anyone tells me all the reasons for relays and cut off switches, I live in a community where golf carts are used daily. I have not reason to store it and if I did, then I would disconnect the battery cable.
Yes, many of you will say that I am attempting a "redneck" slop together job, but if my cart works fine with a 48v lead acid pack then why wouldn't it work well with a 48v lithium pack? Unlike some of you, I cannot get into all the schematics of the electrical system and digital monitoring via a BMS and monitor. I am going to use a simple and cheap BMS and simple lithium charger and then check my cell voltage with a hand meter.
If there is anyone out there that has the patience to "dumb" this down to my level, I am sure that GOD will reward you at a later time.
List of needed info, summarized:
Minimum specs for cheap BMS
Minimum specs for cheap charger

Sounds simple to me, but it may be hair pulling and frustrating to you. If I am "dreaming" then I have already committed to a Lithium "Leaf" pack of seven, two cell mods which is supposed to give me a rated 48+ volts.

Thank you for your patience and generosity of sharing your information.
500 Watt (9amp) or larger charger would work just fine for you if you are just charging overnight. No real need to go above 1200 watt (20 amp) charger.

If you are not cutting off the load side with the BMS, just choose a BMS that can handle more amps than your charger puts out. I usually buy the 30 amp BMSs since they are only a couple bucks more than the 20amp, but not as crazy as the higher amp BMSs that would be needed to cut off the load side.

See the attached diagram of how mine is wired. I keep it as basic and simple as possible. My BMS protects against over charging and also balances. This is an economical and easy way to run.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg BMS Wiring.jpg (38.7 KB, 0 views)
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Unread 05-13-2019, 03:58 AM   #379
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Quote:
Originally Posted by MDLNB View Post
Here's the thing. I am on a fixed retirement income, also with hobbies. Unfortunately, I have to do it the cheap way.

Before anyone tells me all the reasons for relays and cut off switches, I live in a community where golf carts are used daily. I have not reason to store it and if I did, then I would disconnect the battery cable.
Thank you for your patience and generosity of sharing your information.
Sounds like you have a good understanding of lithium batteries. I understand what you are saying about fixed income, I'm in the same boat. There is nothing wrong with what you are saying.

There are some folks on here using less expensive setups than the system that is used in the build on this thread. I can not remember the specific members on here who have at the moment. If you do some searching on here, you can find them.

I recently did a lithium build, same system as this build. I'm no expert, but have some basic knowledge. That being said... The HV/LV relays or contactors are not JUST for during charging. They also are in place for while operating the vehicle. If you have a system with regen, the HV cutoff is important. LV cutoff is important for while operating the vehicle, I don't believe it is needed, really, for charging purposes. They are important for safety, but also to protect your investment in the batteries. There are low cost, effective setups shared in this forum.

Hope this helps. Good luck, and have fun with your build! We're all here to help if you need/want it.
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Unread 05-13-2019, 01:29 PM   #380
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Default Re: Bit the bullet Leaf Lithium build

Quote:
Originally Posted by BBBHC View Post
Sounds like you have a good understanding of lithium batteries. I understand what you are saying about fixed income, I'm in the same boat. There is nothing wrong with what you are saying.

There are some folks on here using less expensive setups than the system that is used in the build on this thread. I can not remember the specific members on here who have at the moment. If you do some searching on here, you can find them.

I recently did a lithium build, same system as this build. I'm no expert, but have some basic knowledge. That being said... The HV/LV relays or contactors are not JUST for during charging. They also are in place for while operating the vehicle. If you have a system with regen, the HV cutoff is important. LV cutoff is important for while operating the vehicle, I don't believe it is needed, really, for charging purposes. They are important for safety, but also to protect your investment in the batteries. There are low cost, effective setups shared in this forum.

Hope this helps. Good luck, and have fun with your build! We're all here to help if you need/want it.
Thank you very much. I appreciate your understanding.
I have been looking at a few low priced (Chinese made) 10amp chargers and when I am sure I have one that appears to be safe enough, I will commit.
Been going through many Youtube and blogs regarding the BMS and I can understand the need for it. Although, if I go cheap I will not have much control on adjustments. Would hate to have it cut off the power when I am out and about. The most confusion I had was the amp rating and it appears that one nice member above helped a lot when they said that I should get one that is slightly above the charger rated amp. I was worried that it had something to do with the controller, since someone mentioned that on a youtube video. I have a curtis 400amp controller and it gets me up these tunnel ramps with no problem (and powers my 22 inch tires).
I am real interested in going lithium because of the weight and maintenance benefit, as well as the longevity. I should take delivery on my seven mod leaf pack tomorrow according to FedEx. It is a used one but I still think I got a good deal on it. If I get a few years of use out of it, it still beats the cost, weight and maintenance of my lead acid batteries. My wife is always on the go and I have to fit my work on her cart in between her running about in it. I made the mistake of putting new wheels and seat on it and now she loves it. I should have distilled water delivered to my residence at the rate I have to keep it filled. She charges that thing EVERY day and it's pretty hot in my garage to boot.
As soon as I get this lithium pack working in my Rat Rod, I plan to tear my cart down for a new project. My wife is concerned but I need the guts out of it for my next project. My old CC DS 48 volt runs between 23-27mph, depending on it's disposition and whether or not I have a passenger. I consider that ideal for this area. I bet with the lithium pack cutting back on weight and if I was to install it in the rear, I could probably get the font wheels to jump off the ground and inch or so. We'll have to see. Not that I want to bust an axle or anything....
I apologize for my digress. I think I will have to add to my list of purchases, a power meter. I have an analog meter and I picked up a cheap digital volt meter that I installed in the dash, but that stupid (foreign) cr@p gave up on me in about a week. The analog meter still works, but that doesn't tell me enough that I would want to rely on it for the lithium pack.
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