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Unread 02-16-2019, 12:00 PM   #21
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Default Re: Nothing to see here. Team Tesla

Tesla packs have fuse wires per cell too. Where is the data that says the standard 18650 cells are more volatile than pouch cells like Leaf / Volt????
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Unread 02-16-2019, 01:31 PM   #22
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Default Re: Nothing to see here. Team Tesla

So are these a mix of different chemistries since you sourced them from various places? Are the pink ones Li-cobalt? I was under the impression those were the most “dangerous” of the different chemistries. Not attacking your build in any way, honestly just trying to learn more.
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Unread 02-16-2019, 01:57 PM   #23
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Default Re: Nothing to see here. Team Tesla

Quote:
Originally Posted by izzybird View Post
So are these a mix of different chemistries since you sourced them from various places? Are the pink ones Li-cobalt? I was under the impression those were the most “dangerous” of the different chemistries. Not attacking your build in any way, honestly just trying to learn more.
From the research I did I believe the different color wrappings are just from different manufacturers...
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Unread 02-16-2019, 06:26 PM   #24
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Default Re: Nothing to see here. Team Tesla

As far as damage to the Tesla pack being the only cause of failure, I must disagree. One failure was a brand new Tesla on a customers first test drive with a Tesla technician aboard. The Tech heard a "pop" and asked the driver to pull over. All they could do is watch while the brand new car burned. No damage whatsoever to the pack had occured. When you pack that many cells into a new car, all it takes is one cell to fail, for any reason. Golf cart packs require so much fewer cells that it reduces the risk.

When it came to the command and control system, I had no issue working with Tesla. When I was asked to get involved with the Tesla battery charging system more recently, no amount of money could get me involved. I told Elon that as long as he stuck with those cells, I wanted no part of it. He wants the max range possible, no matter the risk.
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Unread 02-16-2019, 07:00 PM   #25
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Default Re: Nothing to see here. Team Tesla

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volt_Ampere View Post
Tesla packs have fuse wires per cell too. Where is the data that says the standard 18650 cells are more volatile than pouch cells like Leaf / Volt????
Cell chemistry, not cell configuration. Since my prior reference to aerospace engineering was shot down, I'll not bother referring to extensive NTSB aircraft accident investigations and the subsequent testing that eventually led to the redesign of lithium pack countainments to prevent further loss of airliners and passengers due to fires caused by the introduction of lithium packs to commercial airliners by the manufacturers, to replace the former industry standard of NiCd. They still suffer from passenger carried devices that contain cobalt containing lithium cells that catch fire in luggage and carry-on bags that slip through the passenger screening process. There is a reason that we must pay for HazMat shipping fees when shipping lithium cells. There have been so many incidents that it has created a fear of anything lithium in certain circles. This is unfair to those that buy and use safer alternative chemistries that do not exhibit the same reaction to failure.

Please don't take my feedback wrong... The pack he built is really done well for his application, and I enjoyed reading about it here. My criticism is reserved for the way Elon chooses power density over safer chemistry.

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Unread 02-16-2019, 09:21 PM   #26
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Default Re: Nothing to see here. Team Tesla

Thanks Bob, I have had fun learning about something new along the way.

I feel as though my output in my pack won't be working the cells that hard, thereby decrease risks also. I could have used less batteries, but then work each more. So far with the usage in my tests, there has been very very little heat change under load. Also I'm charging them slow and controlled. I could probably charge it in 6 hours, or in 24 hours. My general thought is why rush it and increase risk, but again, I'm still learning.

I believe that it is best to store the batteries near 3.7 volts during non use seasons, can anyone confirm that is correct? That's what I've been doing is stopping the charger at 37 volts, since it's not getting used much now.

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Unread 02-17-2019, 07:20 AM   #27
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Default Re: Nothing to see here. Team Tesla

So.....what kind of "milage" are you getting with this rather interesting pack?
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Unread 02-17-2019, 07:58 AM   #28
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Default Re: Nothing to see here. Team Tesla

I don't have that info yet. It's been below freezing ever since it's been done. 230 amp hours is about all i can say about it.

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Unread 02-17-2019, 08:02 AM   #29
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Default Re: Nothing to see here. Team Tesla

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobBoyce View Post
Please don't take my feedback wrong... The pack he built is really done well for his application, and I enjoyed reading about it here. My criticism is reserved for the way Elon chooses power density over safer chemistry.
Saw a recent video of Elon discussing adding a second level of batteries to the existing battery packs in the cars... That seems a bit scary

I was under the impression that one of the reasons Elon decided to go with 18650 cells, was to reduce cost. As opposed to the cells that Nissan, Chevy, etc., use. Their "specialized" housings require more design and manufacturing of parts to fit them. Is this the case Bob?
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Unread 02-17-2019, 08:38 AM   #30
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Default Re: Nothing to see here. Team Tesla

There are a lot of Teslas out there now and not many have had battery fires. Yes it has happened and I don't know all of the details but I consider their packs to be as safe as any of the other electric car packs. There is a ton of stored energy in these packs just like there is a ton of stored energy in a gas tank. One thing against Tesla packs is that they have many cells so many points of failure. But most failures do not result in a fire.

The "Rich Rebuilds" Tesla battery fire on Youtube was the result of gross negligence and he admitted that in another video.

If I find a couple Tesla modules for a reasonable price, I will put them in a cart. The problem is that there are not many available and many folks are looking for them for other uses.
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