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-   -   2019 Onward Kohler Issues (https://www.buggiesgonewild.com/showthread.php?t=157420)

Vince B333 09-23-2019 02:06 PM

2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
Anyone else purchase a 2019 Onward with Kohler engine? Been having problems with it when first starting up and taking it for a ride down an inclined street. Incline not much, but you typically would not push throttle to floor during the descent. Onward starts to putter and continues to do so once on level ground. Next thing engine light comes on with it still no longer reaching more than 2200 rpm or maybe around 12 mph. Took it in to dealer and they are stumped. Club Car sent out a new O2 sensor and new computer. Worked about 2 days and same deal. Club Car claims that it has something to do with O2 sensor and computer, but neither they nor Kohler can seem to figure it out. Claim that is making it run lean. Their latest thing was to uncouple wire harness to O2 sensor and unplug check engine light. I must admit that it runs like a champ now, but doesn't seem to be the right thing to do. Dealer has had it now on four different occasions trying to fix and says another customer with same rig is experiencing identical issues. Anyone else? Almost ready to pursue a lemon law claim. Any help, etc. appreciated.
Thanks,
Vince

CP241 09-23-2019 02:16 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince B333 (Post 1655542)
? Almost ready to pursue a lemon law claim. Any help, etc. appreciated.
Thanks,
Vince

Check you PM's

LabRat 09-23-2019 03:32 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
i Guess the Club Car Engineers forgot the golden rule....
IF IT IS NOT BROKE DON'T MESS WITH IT. There was no major issue with the Kawasaki engine....so someone please tell me why.

Fairtax4me 09-24-2019 02:39 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
Sounds like a bad Engine Temp sensor or it needs a hotter spark plug to keep from fouling when its cold.

Doc 09-29-2019 07:17 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
This may or may not help, but every, and I mean EVERY piece of equipment that I've ever owned that had a Kohler engine in it was garbage. Even worse was Kohler's "Customer Service" which is nearly non-existent. I'm disappointed that CC went with then and agree with the previous poster. Kawasaki's were great-why did they mess with them??!?

CP241 09-29-2019 10:22 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc (Post 1657457)
This may or may not help, but every, and I mean EVERY piece of equipment that I've ever owned that had a Kohler engine in it was garbage. Even worse was Kohler's "Customer Service" which is nearly non-existent. I'm disappointed that CC went with then and agree with the previous poster. Kawasaki's were great-why did they mess with them??!?

Respectfully I have to disagree. I've had nothing but positive experiences with Kohler engines. I've had several mowers with them, my current is a gravely promaster 260Z with the Kohler command pro 27hp, and has over 2000 hours on the original motor. Fires up instantly, doesn't burn or leak a drop of oil. Zero issues at all, the only thing I've ever done to the motor is the upgrade kit for the ignition coils. Very common problem on Kohler motors but a cheap and easy fix.

I am a big fan of the Kawasaki FE motors, but to say kohler is garbage is a stretch... the FE motors dont make near the power of the Kohler in the onward and you have to eventually move on or you cant keep up with the competition

grawyl 12-04-2019 12:19 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
just an FYI. There is a TSB for this issue. My cart had the same issue and the dealer replaced the 02 sensor and reprogrammed the computer. I am not sure this completely resolved the issue because it still happens from time to time. I believe its a result of poor quality gas and the issue only shows up after the cart has sat for about 1-2 hours and the motor is still warm/hot. The cart will drive as normal until it worms up to full operating temperature and as soon as the computer switches from an open loop program to the closed loop program it will start sputtering.

The reprogramming of the computer has made our cart run a bit richer on gas and we have noticed we burn through more gas than before the reprogramming (we live on an island and the cart is our primary mode of transportation).

When this issue show up, I have been able to resolve it by turning the ignition off for a few min to allow the computer to reset. You'll know when that happens because the yellow check engine light will illuminate for a few seconds when the ignition is turned back on. If it doesn't illuminate, you need to wait longer before turning the ignition back on.

If resetting the computer doesn't solve the issue, disconnect the 02 sensor at the connector. This will force the computer to run in the open loop program mode and the yellow check engine light will come on but the cart will drive normally. Once you park the cart for the night or at least 8 hours to cool off, reconnect the 02 sensor and it should work as is supposed too.

Hope this helps.

GoBeau 03-02-2020 04:10 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
Hello, I to am having this exact same issue on my 2019 CC with the Kohler engine. The largest CC dealership here in Central Florida have about 150 carts with this problem. Club Car had released a Bulletin with a fix by replacing the O2 sensor and a reprogrammed computer but this dealership did about 25 customer carts and the problem still existed. When I went to see them recently about this they said basically they have stopped replacing the O2 sensor and computers because it is not fixing the problem. Club Car and this dealership’s current solution is as you mentioned, disconnect the O2 sensor harness and if you don’t want to see the check engine light ON all the time, also disconnect this amber warning light! They indicated that the engine will run “leaner” by disconnecting the O2 sensor. I believe anyone and everyone with this problem needs to put some pressure on their dealership which in return will hopefully put pressure on Club Car to get a permanent solution. If Club Car doesn’t fix the problem soon, Club Car needs to replace these engines with one that don’t have this problem or replace the cart. I purchased a new cart to avoid having any major issues verses buying a used golf cart with a long history. It seems that even the Club Car Dealer Reps are being somewhat kept in the dark on what Club Car is doing to resolve this. This is totally unfair to the dealers and the Club Car owners. Time for them to step up and let everyone know what’s going on. Please keep us all updated if any of you get any kind of response/solution or update from your dealership on this ongoing problem. THANKS.

Vince B333 03-04-2020 11:21 AM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
Sorry to hear that you are having that problem. I recently found out that there is indeed some type of newer 'fix' to correct the problem. I also know that the 2020 carts no longer have the problem. So if problem solved with the '20's why can't be implemented on the '19's? Get the dealer to contact them again. From what I gathered the new fix has only been found in the last couple of months. I would also ask the dealer if they are experiencing issues with the 2020's. Over here in AZ, they seem to be fine.
Good Luck!

banjoman2255 03-17-2020 07:14 AM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
I have a 2020 Onward that I bought about 3 weeks ago. This same issue started last night. I have been riding this cart daily and this was the first time it happened. Just like another poster, I ran mine for about 25 mins and went to a friend's house for about an hour. On the way home it started sputtering. I'm contacting my dealer this AM to see what he says.

Dick74 05-15-2020 04:57 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
Have you tried to increase your speed in your 2020 Onward?

banjoman2255 05-27-2020 07:17 AM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
I had my dealer adjust my throttle cable. I get 28mph on gps but it's wound up pretty tight at that speed. Cruises comfortably at 24ish. Dealer replaced my 02 sensor and have not had any issues sputtering since.

Prazak 07-14-2020 04:05 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
I have a 2020 Onward LSV from a dealer in Florida, and my neighbor has a 2020 Onward LSV from another dealer in Florida. Both of us have had the same issue described on this thread. Both of us contacted our respective dealers, and both dealers arranged to have the O2 sensor replaced. That seemed to do the trick, but ironically both carts had the problem resurface within 24 hours of each other. My cart started sputtering last night and dropped speed from 25 mph to 17 mph. Engine was running hot. I called the dealer and a technician there said he thought it was a one-off with the computer, that when we switched the cart into maintenance mode to check the engine we reset the computer, and that the problem was likely resolved. He suggested I continue using the cart normally. I'm not sure I want to do that.

Then this morning my neighbor's Onward started sputtering and limped back to her house at 5 mph. I called her dealer and he also thought it must be some anomaly, since both the O2 sensor and the ECU had been changed.

These brand new carts shipped to two different dealers with defective O2 sensors, and now even after those sensors have been replaced, both carts are still exhibiting signs of the same problem. I think that's the definition of a lemon law violation, and I guess we're going to have to look into pressing Club Car to make good.

Anyone with any suggestions on what might be the technical problem, what might be the recent fix that was referenced on this thread, and whether anyone has gotten any traction with Club Car in coming up with a more permanent fix?

banjoman2255 07-15-2020 10:12 AM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
My 2020 had the same o2 sensor problem happen again a couple days ago. Unplugging the sensor completely fixes it. I'm also pissed that I paid this much money and am having unsolvable issues.

Vince B333 07-15-2020 07:06 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
As I opened this thread with my 2019, I instead now own a 2020 (don't ask). I thought all was great with this one. Low and behold a couple of weeks ago, now the same **** problem surfaced out of nowhere. Happened a couple times and one of the times threw a code via the yellow warning light. Took it over to the dealer and boy was he surprised. He as well as I thought 'they' had fixed the problem. Same code as was on the '19, about evaporative canister and O2 sensor.

Happened a couple more times, so what the hell - let me try something. I removed the black rubber line going from the gas tank to the evap canister. Didn't want fuel to slosh out the line from the tank, so found a place to mount it higher. On the evap side, didn't know if it 'sucks', or just sits there, so in case it sucks - put a fuel fiter on the end of the line just to filter the air going into that thing - in case.

Now - go figure - don't know if it is coincidence or a possible fix, but I've been running that cart all over the place for a couple of weeks and NOT ONE ISSUE since I performed this "fix". Also, this 'fix' does NOT affect the check engine light. That is the light stays off as opposed to it staying on all the time with the O2 sensor wire being removed.

Give it a try - what do you have to lose? That **** canister is only there for CA emissions anyway, and doesn't do a darn thing for me.

Please do me one favor though and if indeed you try this, let me know the outcome. Again, don't know if I just pleased the Club Car gods, or did I stumble upon something good.

Vince

Fairtax4me 07-15-2020 08:23 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
Well a code for the emissions canister is a new one to my ears. Seems like a stupid thing, but those canisters have to breathe in order for the tank to vent properly. Is there a vent hose leading away from the canister going into a hole in the frame? Or possibly into a smaller black canister, which would usually be an air filter. Or is there a little T plug stuck in the end of the vent hose? A common issue on those systems on automobiles is bugs will get into the vent hose and build a nest and block the hose. Sets off the CEL.

Also if for some reason the line that runs to the canister ever gets liquid fuel in it, it can ruin the carbon structure in the canister and cause it to basically become blocked. Have you ever topped off the fuel tank to the point it overflows?

Vince B333 07-16-2020 11:43 AM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
1 Attachment(s)
When the technician came out and talked with me, he did mention about O2 sensor code and charcoal canister. Him mentioning that is what got me thinking to tinkering with that thing. Regarding too full a tank. Yep, that has happened to me more than once. Filled to top. I just got done looking through owners manual and I couldn't find any mention of filling too much. One would think that if this is what is causing the problems to so many of us, a nice BIG notice would be in a few places in that manual. I know that I am not the only one with this issue. So if indeed the problem is that at one time raw gas has entered that canister, what to do about it now? Will it evaporate out itself? I am attaching a picture of my 'fix'. The only reason for the fuel filter on the one line is in case there is air being sucked into this line. Hopefully would prevent any debris from entering. I also used to have another filter attached (same way) to the black nipple on the gas tank. I just took that one off and plugged that line to see if it might make any difference. I really don't like leaving that line open since it is a direct route to gas in tank.
Thanks for replying to my message earlier.
Vince

Fairtax4me 07-16-2020 04:56 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
I've never paid too much attention to whats there on our 2015 Subaru EFI cart, but I think the same canister is there with a similar layout. I might have to go grab it and take a closer look. I've never filled that one up "all the way" because it runs for a month on a tank of fuel, even being driven every day.
You can see on the opposite side of the canister is the external vent I was talking about. It looks like it just has a T plug in it, and doesn't look to me to be blocked in any way, but that doesn't mean the canister is not.

The black vent nipple on top of the tank should just be an IN vent so the tank doesn't suck in when the pressure inside drops as the liquid in the tank cools. The cap is supposed to be vented to allow air IN, but they could have changed that, and there's no guarantee it will always work. Thus the need for a dedicated vent tube on the tank.

billyGA709 08-09-2020 03:22 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
I purchased a new Onward a few months ago and am having the same issue.
Dealer was unable to duplicate the problem. Called Club Car Friday and was told they have a new SB on it related to the O2 sensor. Hopefully it's a newer SB than what I'm seeing here and actually solves the problem. My cart might run perfectly for a week or two and then will start acting up. I can come to a complete stop, allowing the engine to shut down for a few seconds, then when I press the pedal it will run perfectly for 30 seconds then start sputtering again. The following day it will run fine and might not act up for another week or two. Can someone describe the O2 sensor so that I can try disconnecting it if necessary?
Quote:

Originally Posted by grawyl (Post 1673417)
just an FYI. There is a TSB for this issue. My cart had the same issue and the dealer replaced the 02 sensor and reprogrammed the computer. I am not sure this completely resolved the issue because it still happens from time to time. I believe its a result of poor quality gas and the issue only shows up after the cart has sat for about 1-2 hours and the motor is still warm/hot. The cart will drive as normal until it worms up to full operating temperature and as soon as the computer switches from an open loop program to the closed loop program it will start sputtering.

The reprogramming of the computer has made our cart run a bit richer on gas and we have noticed we burn through more gas than before the reprogramming (we live on an island and the cart is our primary mode of transportation).

When this issue show up, I have been able to resolve it by turning the ignition off for a few min to allow the computer to reset. You'll know when that happens because the yellow check engine light will illuminate for a few seconds when the ignition is turned back on. If it doesn't illuminate, you need to wait longer before turning the ignition back on.

If resetting the computer doesn't solve the issue, disconnect the 02 sensor at the connector. This will force the computer to run in the open loop program mode and the yellow check engine light will come on but the cart will drive normally. Once you park the cart for the night or at least 8 hours to cool off, reconnect the 02 sensor and it should work as is supposed too.

Hope this helps.


billyGA709 08-09-2020 04:37 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
Is there a way to duplicate the problem so as to show the dealer what is happening or to ascertain if/when the problem is fixed?

banjoman2255 08-11-2020 02:10 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
billyGA709, the 02 sensor is a black plug on top of the engine right under the exhaust. Unplug it and it will cure your issues. You will have the check engine light come on though. Sad that we pay this much for Onwards and they do this .

Vince B333 08-11-2020 02:42 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
BillyGA709 -

Have you tried disconnecting the charcoal canister as I have mentioned in a couple of posts up (with picture). Mine has been running great with it disconnected. I did NOT have to disconnect the O2 sensor and therefore check engine light does not come on and stay on. Just for grins, I re-connected it a couple of weeks ago and in two days problems resurfaced. Disconnected again and all is A-OK.

billyGA709 08-29-2020 07:17 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
Banjo and Vince - Thanks for the tip on unplugging the O2 sensor and/or disconnecting the charcoal canister. I will keep that in mind if/when the problem resurfaces as well as turn the key off for a minute or two, long enough for it to reset as someone suggested somewhere in this thread. The dealer called me about two weeks ago and has ordered the parts related to the service bulletin. However, the problem has not resurfaced in at least two weeks or more and we ride the cart almost daily. It has about 60 hours on it now and the issue has occurred on maybe four separate occasions with greatly increased time between each occurrence. I'm thinking the issue has corrected itself but I realize it might reoccur tomorrow. I am careful not to completely top off the fuel tank, not sure if that helps but it's worth a shot. I might not let the dealer tinker with it unless it acts up again.

Doc 09-02-2020 11:37 AM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
My .02, and yes, I DO have a dog in this fight- I would take the cart back to the dealer and have them fix it and fix it right. There is no excuse to pay this kind of money and have the cart not meet basic (and legal, mind you) expectations. I say legal because this is emissions-related and will dog you for years down the road if not repaired correctly. I've spoken to no less than 6 people who have had similar issues with the new Kohler engines. Club Car needs to know about this so the issue can be addressed and corrected. God, I with they could've stayed with the Kawasakis!

ellis056 09-09-2020 11:21 AM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
2 Attachment(s)
I have a 2020 Onward with about 30 hours on the motor. Fouled the first spark plug around 20 hours and had to replace it. This one is still running ok for now, but I just found something that I'm curious about. On the Air filter cap there's a Rubber valve covering the inlet tube. Anyone know why the heck this thing would be on here restricting air flow?

I just wonder if maybe this has something to do with fouling spark plugs. Maybe the computer can't adjust the mixture enough to compensate for the restricted air flow? I just took mine off and will see how it runs for a while.

Edit* I found the second inlet hole on the bottom side of the air box. Definitely not the problem.

Karpsta 04-05-2021 09:31 AM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
So has anyone hear if Kohler/Club Car have an actual solution to this issue yet? We had our dealer replace the O2 sensor and ECU back in December (took a month to get the parts) and we're back to having the same issues.

Unfortunately we have only 1 dealer near us, and they are pretty worthless.

Doc 04-05-2021 03:46 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Karpsta (Post 1817104)
So has anyone hear if Kohler/Club Car have an actual solution to this issue yet? We had our dealer replace the O2 sensor and ECU back in December (took a month to get the parts) and we're back to having the same issues.

Unfortunately we have only 1 dealer near us, and they are pretty worthless.

Nope...complete and utter silence from both CC AND Kohler. I had a chance to buy 4 of these back in Jan of this year for a song (if I took them all and took them "as-is") and I noped to the entire deal. Great looking carts, but with that Kohler drivetrain they may as well be garbage. I cannot believe that Club Car paired up with that company...they have a VERY long history of producing junk engines. They're going to impact Club Car and their reputation. The Kohler of the past is long gone....seriously, I'd rather have an engine from Harbor Freight than one from Kohler. Yes, they're THAT bad....

YoToddy 05-04-2021 03:42 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by banjoman2255 (Post 1723054)
I had my dealer adjust my throttle cable. I get 28mph on gps but it's wound up pretty tight at that speed. Cruises comfortably at 24ish. Dealer replaced my 02 sensor and have not had any issues sputtering since.

How are you getting that speed? I just bought a 6 passenger 2021 Lifted Onward and I'm topping out at 18-19mph!

billyGA709 05-15-2021 08:37 AM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by billyGA709 (Post 1755279)
Banjo and Vince - Thanks for the tip on unplugging the O2 sensor and/or disconnecting the charcoal canister. I will keep that in mind if/when the problem resurfaces as well as turn the key off for a minute or two, long enough for it to reset as someone suggested somewhere in this thread. The dealer called me about two weeks ago and has ordered the parts related to the service bulletin. However, the problem has not resurfaced in at least two weeks or more and we ride the cart almost daily. It has about 60 hours on it now and the issue has occurred on maybe four separate occasions with greatly increased time between each occurrence. I'm thinking the issue has corrected itself but I realize it might reoccur tomorrow. I am careful not to completely top off the fuel tank, not sure if that helps but it's worth a shot. I might not let the dealer tinker with it unless it acts up again.

UPDATE: My cart now has 150 hours on it and the problem has not resurfaced. Therefore I did not take it back to the dealer again or unplug the O2 sensor or disconnect the charcoal canister (if it ain't broke, don't fix it). I am now convinced the issue was water/condensation in the fuel due to the cart had been in the dealer's showroom for an extended period of time. I think that would explain the issue as the problem seemed to lessen and eventually go away after having gone through several tanks of gas.

It might just be in my head but it seems my fuel mileage has increased tremendously after having "broken in" the cart. Initially I had to fill 'er up once per week. Now it seems to be more like once per month.

I am very happy with the purchase.

FloridaCart 05-15-2021 10:01 AM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
Thanks for update Billy.... Did you get your cart from Potter motor's in Albany ?

GoBeau 09-17-2021 09:03 PM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vince B333 (Post 1740831)
As I opened this thread with my 2019, I instead now own a 2020 (don't ask). I thought all was great with this one. Low and behold a couple of weeks ago, now the same **** problem surfaced out of nowhere. Happened a couple times and one of the times threw a code via the yellow warning light. Took it over to the dealer and boy was he surprised. He as well as I thought 'they' had fixed the problem. Same code as was on the '19, about evaporative canister and O2 sensor.

Happened a couple more times, so what the hell - let me try something. I removed the black rubber line going from the gas tank to the evap canister. Didn't want fuel to slosh out the line from the tank, so found a place to mount it higher. On the evap side, didn't know if it 'sucks', or just sits there, so in case it sucks - put a fuel fiter on the end of the line just to filter the air going into that thing - in case.

Now - go figure - don't know if it is coincidence or a possible fix, but I've been running that cart all over the place for a couple of weeks and NOT ONE ISSUE since I performed this "fix". Also, this 'fix' does NOT affect the check engine light. That is the light stays off as opposed to it staying on all the time with the O2 sensor wire being removed.

Give it a try - what do you have to lose? That **** canister is only there for CA emissions anyway, and doesn't do a darn thing for me.

Please do me one favor though and if indeed you try this, let me know the outcome. Again, don't know if I just pleased the Club Car gods, or did I stumble upon something good.

Vince


Hi Vince,

Can you post a few pictures of exactly what you did to your cart and that rubber line please? Thx.
Updated: Ignore, I saw that you did indeed post a picture a little further down in another post. THANK YOU.

Vince B333 09-22-2021 11:12 AM

Re: 2019 Onward Kohler Issues
 
By the way.... Now have over 200 hours on that cart w/o an issue after that mod. Just keeps running great.


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