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Old 09-30-2010, 06:07 PM   #1
gwbrehm
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Default Marathon 2 cycle Reed Valve

I have a 94 Marathon 2 cycle that doesn't want to run anymore, It has gradually got to the point where it only spits and sputters. It seems like it is starved for fuel, so I went thru the carb and pulled the reed valve to make sure it wasn't stuck. One of the reeds appeared to have shifted to the side and had the tiniest sliver of light coming thru it so I loosened the screws and shifted it over to fill the gap. I'm wondering now if it was supposed to be that way and I screwed it up because it seems to be worse now. Fuel pump works great, good blue spark, compression at 130, and tried it with the muffler disconnected. Waiting on a new set of reed gaskets so I will have an opportunity to put it back the way it was.
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Old 09-30-2010, 08:09 PM   #2
BrewCityMusic
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Default Re: Marathon 2 cycle Reed Valve

You might want to check your crank seals, your symptoms fit with one or both leaking air. To check them, jack up the cart so it doesn't run away on you and start it, letting it run at idle or as low as your cart will run, RPM-wise. Have someone spray a little carb cleaner or WD40 into the cooling air intake at the front of the motor, then at the rear of the engine where the crankshaft comes out. If either seal is shot, your RPM's will increase when the carb cleaner/WD40 is sprayed.
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Old 09-30-2010, 09:18 PM   #3
Dave Box
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Default Re: Marathon 2 cycle Reed Valve

and there are supposed to be NO gaps in the reed assembly. You say it is starved of fuel, maybe it is. Did you take the carburetter apart and clean the main jet and nozzle. If not I can send you an assembley drawing and instuctions on how to clean it out.
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:50 AM   #4
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Default Re: Marathon 2 cycle Reed Valve

Took the carb apart and blew everything out, everything looked good. I was thinking since my compression was good and the fuel pump is working it wasn't the seals. If I can get it running I'll check the seals, I'm hoping that they are ok. Seems like a major job to replace them.
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Old 10-01-2010, 07:52 AM   #5
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Default Re: Marathon 2 cycle Reed Valve

To be sure with regard to the carburetter, you appreciate that the nut that holds the bowl on is the main jet and must be very clean. It has several orifices that must be cleaned. Also you did unscrew the main nozzle and cleaned those orifices, yes? Don't forget the low speed nozzle which is the one you can see on the top of the carburetter. A few folks have in the past thought that blasting carb cleaner into the air intake will clean the carb and would hate you to tear down your motor only to discover a spec of dirt is killing you.
A good compression is not an indication of good crankshaft seals. As the piston rises the air in the cylinder is compressed and that compression is measured at the top of the engine. Nothing below the piston rings will have any play in how good or bad your compression is.
Crankcase air leaks will stop the engine running, they prevent the fuel pump working (although I appreciate that your one is working) but more importantly they prevent the fuel in the crankcase being pressurized and transfered to the cylinder. It may be that yours are worn but unless you enjoy working on engines, replacing them should be an avenue to explore after all other avenues have dead ended. The good news is that it is a cheap repair at about $6 for a set. If you are nimble fingered you could probably do it without removing the engine but if the clutch and flywheel have not been removed in a while you are in for an interesting time.
Keep us posted
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Old 10-01-2010, 06:36 PM   #6
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Default Re: Marathon 2 cycle Reed Valve

Dave thanks for the advise, good point about the compression. I tried to get it running today to check seals and it wouldn't run. I pulled the plug and found it wet, checked for spark and again found a nice blue spark. Switched plugs and no luck again. Checked the compression again and got 125 in forward and the same in reverse. So I tried to start it in reverse and it started and ran rough but ran briefly. Continued switching out plugs but could only get it to run in reverse. Checked the pulsar voltage output and found 0.28 vac (granted I'm not very good with a volt meter). I'm wondering if it could be the problem or is it possible for it to have slipped timing? Considered that the float was stuck and flooding, but, it ran in reverse so seems like that isn't a possibility. It has everything there to run (spark, gas and compression) but won't. Haven't ruled out seals yet either
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Old 10-01-2010, 07:21 PM   #7
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Default Re: Marathon 2 cycle Reed Valve

The timing *could* be an issue, but the way it's designed on these it's a longshot that it would "jump" or move (and to mess with it involves the dreaded "Flywheel Removal")

.28 seems a bit weak to me from the pulsar, mine puts out just over 1vac - check the spot where the pulsar wires come out of the crankcase (on the left side of the motor) and make sure the insulating grommet is intact and that you can't see any breaks in the wires, kinks, etc, it could be that the pulsar wires are shorting or? which could significantly weaken the spark ...

Other than that, better let Dave handle this one, he's the Guru. Big *** clumsy fingers, but the Guru nonetheless :)
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Old 10-01-2010, 09:54 PM   #8
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Default Re: Marathon 2 cycle Reed Valve

Brew City is right about the big fat fingers but wrong about the guru stuff All I have is my experiences with the little 2PG engine and some basic common sense.
To make this thing work we all we need is a spark, compression >100 psi and some gasoil. Now you say that you have a good blue spark so let's no agonise over the pulsar just yet. You have compression and you have fuel. Now with the air filter off if you squirt a healthy dose of gasoil into the air intake and crank it, it should fire right up and run for 5 seconds or so. This will effectively bypass the carb so we can rule that out for now. If it doesn't fire up then I have to say very reluctantly that your crankshaft seals are probably shot. I say this because due to an unfortunate incident with mine I ruptured both seals and had the same symptoms as you do now. The good news is that at $6 it is a cheap fix, the better news is that after replacing the seals your cart will run like a sewing machine. The bad news is that it is a labor intensive job and I don't think that you can do it without removing the engine. If you want to give it a go I am happy to be here to offer some step by step instructions and walk you through it. There is another knowledgeble guy here called Pocono County Boy and I know that Brew City will also be willing to chip in.
I am taking my cart up to the mountains this weekend where there will be no internet but I will be back on Sunday PM if you want to continue this thread.
Good Luck
Dave
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Old 10-02-2010, 06:33 AM   #9
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Default Re: Marathon 2 cycle Reed Valve

Brew, I'll check the wires, but, unfortunately, I think I'm avoiding the inevitable. It's probably the seals and I know the flywheel and clutch haven't been off for a long time. I'm just not looking forward to the fight. I just kept hoping it would be something else. While I got it out I'm wondering if I should do the top end? I currently have 125-130 psi of compression in both directions, seems like the rings are good.
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Old 10-02-2010, 07:57 AM   #10
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Default Re: Marathon 2 cycle Reed Valve

those are decent compression numbers, it's up to you but I personally probably wouldn't do the top end at this point. I hate to see you go after the seals too, without being able to test and confirm that they're bad but like Dave said, gasoil+spark+no-go = a good chance they're shot.

At this point all I can offer is some insight into pulling the flywheel, mine was such an incredible bear to pull it actually took me almost a week to accomplish because I was afraid I was going to break something. First, make sure you spray the heck out of it with a good penetrating oil like PB Blaster for anything from several hours to a couple of days before you attempt the removal. Second, do NOT be tempted to try and pry it off with anything, as you can and will break the engine casing (I've read several stories regarding that unfortunate situation) - use a heavy-duty steering wheel or flywheel puller with the hardest bolts you can find (grade 8's can and will bend or snap, trust me). Apply tension to the puller, and then slowly rotate the flywheel while tapping firmly on the outside edge of it with a 2lb hammer (to make this easier, I used a longer 1/2" drive extension bar as a punch tool, as there's not a ton of room in there to swing a hammer - if you're pulling the engine first then that shouldn't be an issue) ... IF you're lucky, after about 5-10min of tapping and rotating, you'll hear a loud pop and the flywheel will be loose, if not, respray with the penetrant and try again in a few hours, then repeat as necessary.

As mentioned above, if you plan on reusing the oiler, make sure and protect the end of the crankshaft well - it's hardened, but nowhere near as hard as you'd expect.

As to a puller, if you have an Advance Auto in your area, they rent (for free, just a small deposit) a really nice puller kit that will do the trick (it even has a bushing you can use to protect the crank), if you need one, I ended up buying one on Ebay for around $12
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