Carryall 6, Fuel Pump, Ignition & micro switch, Comp Release & starter Questions

[Tfastle@aol.com]

1997 Carryall 6, FE350 engine, I am likely buying it from a friend but not committed to. He does not know a lot about it but is a very fair guy. He's asking $1500. Is that a fair price? I'm ok with fixing some things but don't want to go throw the engine or major stuff at this point. Looks to be relatively lightly used and reasonably well cared for.

I started another post about a week ago with regard to identifying this Carryall that I am looking at buying. I went out to his place yesterday to hopefully get it running and ran into a few things that I am hoping some of the wisdom and experience on this forum can illuminate. I thought it best to do it on a new post and all on one post Hope that is true, sorry if it's not. I will try to cut to the chase on each one and supply pictures where needed.

Fuel Pump - Pulled out the gas tank and cleaned it as well as drained all fuel lines and reinstalled with new gas. It has an electric fuel pump and I gather from reading, it came with a vacuum operated fuel pump (picture attached). After some headaches (starter wired wrong to turned the engine backwards) I was able to get it to start with some prime but it never pumped fuel. Also, the electric fuel pump never made a sound. From that I derive that it's not working and from my reading replacing it with a stock (equivalent) vacuum pump would be best. Is this correct or should I stick with the electric? Where does the vacuum tube attach to the crank case (looked, but not hard)?

Ignition switch/Micro Swtich - I think it's a "key start" but am not sure. The ignition switch STICKS (dirty I think) in the "start" position but I can turn it to what I assume is run manually (it feels to have 3 (or 4) settings, off, maybe accessories (hard to tell), run, start. When I prime it, it will start but the key sticks in the start position (started keeps running) and if I turn it to the left one click to what I assume is "run", it dies immediately. The micro switch in the control box is wired shut (picture attached) and I assumed (I think wrongly) that was to "make" it key start but I don't really know exactly what that micro switch controls. Anyone know what all that micro-switch controls? Any thoughts on why it dies when I turn the key from "start (starter running)" to the left (CountClock) one notch? I should add here that the yellow wire from the starter is not connected. I think it goes to the voltage regulator but am not sure nor did I see (or look hard for) the wire it is supposed to plug into. On these carts, how do you tell definitively if they are "key" or "pedal" start? Although I think it's key. Why would someone wire the micro-switch shut? I did unwire the micro switch and it still operated as a key start (pedal down or not) and still started and yet died when I turned the key away from "start" to what I think should be "run."

Compression Release - Things got a little weird here. It sounded odd when I would try and prime it and, while it had spark, wouldn't fire AT ALL. It took a while but I figured out that the starter, which is very new (and was clearly installed wrong) was turning the engine backwards. I connected it to switch the rotation by reversing the A1 and A2 connections (per an online search). That turned it the correct direction but now my compression went from 150psi+ when spinning backwards to 62psi when spinning forward. I gather from my prior post that the key starts (thanks CP241) are often engines (this is the FE350) with a compression release. I read on them and see they are actuated centrifugally (or as my college physics prof would say, "or is that centripetally?")but why, if it is a comp release engine, would the rotation of the engine backwards not activate the release (150psi spinning backwards) but (60psi forward) but forward rotation does? Is there a way to test the actual compression on these engines that have the ACR? Or do you just trust that 60-70psi with ACR active translates to 140-160psi when running? Is there a way to visually tell if it's an ACR engine or not? I suspect it is and the comp is fine but it would be nice to know.

Last thing, it looks to have a bit of tow out on the left front wheel (picture attached) and that bumper is a tad bent. Is there adjustment to those or does it mean something is just bent? Is it easy to fix (bend back?) or not really?

Assuming someone gets this far (yeah, not real scintillating reading), sorry for how long this is but figured it was better in one post than 5 or 6. Any thoughts or input is greatly appreciated!

[CP241]

~60psi is perfect. Don’t worry about that

If you got it to run by manually squirting some gas in the carb then I’d say it’s a winner for sure. Will be easy to make it functional. Nickel and dime stuff.

I’d definitely put a vacuum operated fuel pump back on it. The nipple for it is on the side of the engine cover near where the oil dipstick meets the motor. https://buggiesgonewild.com/showthread.php?t=160310 See post #6 for the picture where I removed the motor you can see the nipple right there. That’s the pulse line for the fuel pump. Not really “vacuum” and it “sucks and blows” every time the piston goes up and down Creating the positive and negative pressure inside the crankcase. But that’s the nipple you’d hook the fuel pump up to

Looking at the microswitch and relay I’d say it’s a key start for sure. Electrically it sounds like some backyard ninjas have had their way with this one. I’d start by getting the wiring diagram and combing through the cart to put everything back the way it is supposed to be. Then replace whatever parts are bad.

[Tfastle@aol.com]

Thanks for the reply CP. In reading about the compression release I came across a couple of posts in forums where owners had problems with them. I am guessing that is because in a forum about repair most of what you search is going be related to a problem. As far as you know, is the ACR on these relatively problem free? It sounds pretty simple and I would think so.

I actually don't think there's been a lot done to this thing and the wiring is basically stock other than the micro-switch. At least I didn't see what looked like add on wiring anywhere except for the fuel pump. I think with the starter my friend's (the business owner) foreman had one of his grunts put it on and that guy wasn't careful or skilled and just didn't notice or reconnect the yellow wire. I don't know what that micro switch does or why someone would wire it back. Other than it wired shut the rest of the wiring with regard to it looked factory.

I also think going back to the old pulse (like me after a bike ride, blowin and suckin) style pump is the way to go also but wanted to check.

With regard to the ignition switch itself, I assume I have to make sure and get one that is for a key start rather than a pedal, is that correct? Are aftermarket ones ok?

As I mentioned, he's asking $1500. If indeed it is relatively easy to get going, would you agree that that is a good price? I have no idea what these things are worth.

Also, I attached your picture from the post you linked me to with an arrow pointed at the nipple I think you are talking about. Is that correct?

That is a great post and when I have time I want to go through the whole thing. Will be very helpful!

[CP241]

Yep, that’s the pulse nipple

Call David hicks at revolution golf cars for parts. Key start parts can be kinda tricky to track down just because they’re not as common. He’ll make sure you get the right stuff and he’s a great guy to deal with. I haven’t looked real hard but didn’t see a key start wiring diagram in the sticky section here, but I’m sure he probably has access to one.

It’s definitely worth spending a little time and going through all the wiring carefully. Especially maintenance carts for companies like that, there’s often some “impressive” band aid work done just to get them up and going quickly. And as long as they keep working, those bandaids are rarely readdressed unless they fail again.

I don’t know where you’re located and price fluctuates considerably with region. I will say the carryall 6 isn’t AS desirable to a wide market as say a DS or a regular carryall 1 or 2 just because it’s so big. But there’s definitely a market for it, I would have loved to have had one when I was in Georgia. Especially with the long biggest dump bed. I regularly ran out of room in my carryall 2

Regardless, in my area you can’t touch a mid 80’s cart for less than 1500 bucks and most of those don’t run. Any running and driving gas cart generally goes for at least 2k-2500 bucks in rough condition and no roof (nobody has roofs in Michigan for some reason). Something running, driving good, and in good condition goes for minimum $3k whether it’s battery or gas. And only goes up from there depending how nice and custom it is.

My opinion (and that’s all it is, just an opinion) if it were mine I’d find a bed from a carryall 1, put in a 2nd row of seats and have basically a side by side style golf cart. Lift kit and tires, some paint, nice seat covers it would go for 4-5k pretty easy here.

[ThreeCW]

Originally Posted by Tfastle@aol.com

As I mentioned, he's asking $1500. If indeed it is relatively easy to get going, would you agree that that is a good price? I have no idea what these things are worth.

Value of these carts is certainly in the "eye of the beholder" ... if you need to put in $500 to $1500 of parts into this cart (with $0 for labor), at a $1500 initial cost, the cart would have to be worth $2000 to $3000 fixed up. I would think that cart would be easily worth more than $3000 fixed up.

If you have to start paying for labor ... that might be a different story and your costs could exceed the value of a fixed up cart.

On the other hand, a quick google search shows a number of auction results: https://www.google.com/search?q=carr...hrome&ie=UTF-8

My "opinion" (for what it is worth) is that $1500 is a bit much for this cart considering it is not operational. In my mind, $500 would be a steal ... $1000 would be good value ... but you probably have heard about the value of "opinions" ...

[Tfastle@aol.com]

So my friend contacted me to ask if I was able to get it loaded and home and I told him of the difficulties I had in getting it started. I told him it needed a fuel pump, a key switch and a few other things. He was surprised and apologetic. He's a great guy and said that in light of that he was fine with $1000 and if there's something major wrong he'll take it back. I think you are right CP, that it's just some nickel and dime stuff. While it doesn't look great in the pictures because it's covered in 1/8 inch of dust, I thinks it's actually pretty clean. I do like the idea of another seat and a shorter bed, larger tires and wheels and lifting it. That'd be a pretty cool rig!

For now I need to get it running and checked out. Tomorrow I'm going to get it home and also call David Hicks (today I caught him as he was leaving) and make sure I get the right parts. Once I get it cleaned up and running I can get a feel for how good or bad the condition seems.

One thing was bugging me. Why I got 150lbs of compression when I first tested in then 55 or so later. So I read a little about how the ACR works and think I stumbled on an answer to my question above about how to get the ACTUAL compression of one of these things. I actually think I did get the "actual compressions" when I first tested the compression. How? By spinning the motor backwards! Looking at how most of those ACRs on small engines work it's clear that angular "velocity," once up to speed, disengages them by slinging the weight and arm out. But, I think, when you spin it backwards, as soon as the starter engages the angular "acceleration" of the cam shaft, since it's pushing the arm in the direction of the weight, in essence trying to push under it, would force it up and out as the arm has to rotate and deactivate the compression release tab. At least that's what I think is going on.

I completely agree that assessing a value to this type of thing is difficult. It also seems like, especially of late, it's difficult to get anything that isn't completely thrashed for under a couple thousand dollars. So, as you both eluded to, if it's indeed easy to get going then more than a fair price. If not, well I'll just have to put a little more work into it. Not a huge deal.

Thanks for the replies and input. I will update progress and, of course, ask questions!