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Old 05-11-2012, 09:28 PM   #1
Superman51
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Default DCS to Series conversion fail. Any Ideas?

Hey Guys,
It’s been a long time since I’ve been on here, hope everyone is doing well. I finally got around to building a cart for my wife and have hit a snag. I bought a 98 EZGO DCS cart for hardly nothing. I am converting it to a series system (because the motor and controller were fried). I finished hooking everything up just now and…….nothing. I have triple checked all my wiring and connections and I’m positive they are correct according to the diagram ScottyB sent me. Here are the upgrades/changes I have made: 48V system, 500A FSIP controller, 200A 48V solenoid, 4g cables, the “famous HD F/R cams”, stock series motor. Thanks ScottyB for all the parts .

Now, I have 51V going from my battery pack to my solenoid. On the other side of the solenoid I have 30.5V. When I press the accelerator it drops to 25V. The solenoid does not click. I have no idea why this is happening so any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:34 PM   #2
JohnnieB
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Default Re: DCS to Series conversion fail. Any Ideas?

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Originally Posted by Superman51 View Post
...............Now, I have 51V going from my battery pack to my solenoid. On the other side of the solenoid I have 30.5V. When I press the accelerator it drops to 25V. The solenoid does not click. I have no idea why this is happening so any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
The solenoid not clicking is a problem. The voltages you are reading probably aren't, or at least secondary to the solenoid not clicking.

The voltage drops from one side of the deactivated solenoid to the other because there is current passing through the resistor between the main terminals. The voltage drop is pretty high (should be about 5V), so it might be the wrong size resistor. I believe it should be 450 Ohm on a 48/V system, but I'm not 100% sure of that. (If it is 250 Ohms, it is for a 36V system, that I am sure of. )

The fact that it drops further when the pedal is pressed could be the MOSFETs in the controller are turning on and drawing more current through the resistor.

I'm not familiar with the FSIP controller, but the MOSFETs in a Curtis 1206 (Stock series controller) won't turn on until there is B+ on Pin-4, which gets there via the same circuit that activates the solenoid. That means B+ is getting to the solenoid, so check the diode across the small terminals. It might be shorted or installed backwards.

For troubleshooting, the resistor and diode are not needed, but they should be installed for operation. (They protect the main contacts in the solenoid and contacts in the microswitches from pitting as much)

Also, after you get the solenoid to activate, adjust the ITS. The calibration is different on a DCS and Series cart.
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Old 05-12-2012, 11:10 AM   #3
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Default Re: DCS to Series conversion fail. Any Ideas?

Thanks for the advice JohnnieB,

The resister I have is 470. To help eliminate some possible problems, I removed the diode and resister from the solenoid. Now when I press the throttle the solenoid will click, but only once. If I press the throttle again I get nothing. I have to wait about 5-10 seconds and then it will click again. The voltage reading on the other side of the solenoid goes to about 45V and then slowly drops to about 25V while pressing the throttle. I have no idea what could be causing this?

I did not know that the DCS and Series have different ITS calibrations. Could this be the problem and if so, where could I find out how to recalibrate it. Thanks
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Old 05-13-2012, 07:34 AM   #4
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Default Re: DCS to Series conversion fail. Any Ideas?

The embarrassing one first.

I know the ITS adjustment is different for Series and PDS. Since DCS and PDS use Sepex motors, I figured the DCS would be same as PDS. I was wrong.
DCS and Series are same. Both use a 17/64" drill bit to set initial travel.
How to adjust/check the ITS for a series cart can be found in service manual in the Stickies.
However, now that the diode and resistor are removed, the solenoid is clicking and the motor isn't running, how the ITS is adjusted is near the bottom of the list of thing to check.

Those voltage readings don't make sense to me. With the negative test lead attached to the negative terminal of the right-rear battery (B-), you should have total battery pack voltage (B+) when the solenoid's contacts are closed and Zero volts when they aren't.

When the solenoid contacts are closed, if you are reading a different voltage on the controller side main terminal than you are on the battery side main terminal, something is drastically wrong with the solenoid or how the voltage readings are being taken.

As the voltage reading on the controller side contact is dropping from 45V to 25V, what is the battery pack voltage doing?
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:34 PM   #5
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Default Re: DCS to Series conversion fail. Any Ideas?

Ok,
I've had a little more time to work on it and this is what I have so far. Again, this was a DCS cart. I completely gutted the wires except for the 4 coming off the throttle(under the drivers foot). I rewired the cart to the exact chart ScottyB gave me when I bought the controler (the attached picture). The only difference is the solinoid is not conected to the main 4G wires in the chart but it is in my cart. I have another series EZGO that I am also referencing that is wired the same except for the controler (different company made the controler). Also, I have a different charger so I bypassed the inhibiter switch, which is now connected to the main + connection.

Here are the problems I am having and maybe someone has the solution. I have 51V coming into the solinoid with no diode or resister (just to eliminate options). On the other side, I only have 2V. On my working cart I have 38V on the other side. Both go up to 51V when the gas is pressed. When I release the gas on the nonworking cart, the Voltage slowly goes back to 2V (over about 30-45 sec).

THe next issue is the F/R switch. No matter which position the switch is in (F or R), the alarm goes off. Where the orange wire connects to the switch I have 51V in F and 51V in R. On my working cart I only have 51V in R and 0V in F.

The next issue is on the M- terminal on the controler. I have 2V on the terminal at stand still. When I press the throttle I only get 35V. On my working cart I have 38V at stand still and when I press the gas it goes up to 51V.

Again, the cart is wired identicaly to the attached chart. I don't know if all these issues are connected and that is why the cart is not moving. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FSIP ezgo series 94 - present.JPG (99.8 KB, 0 views)
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Old 05-17-2012, 02:36 PM   #6
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Default Re: DCS to Series conversion fail. Any Ideas?

I forgot to add that my main pack Voltage does not drop when I press the throttle.
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Old 05-17-2012, 04:19 PM   #7
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Default Re: DCS to Series conversion fail. Any Ideas?

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Ok,
I've had a little more time to work on it and this is what I have so far. Again, this was a DCS cart. I completely gutted the wires except for the 4 coming off the throttle(under the drivers foot). I rewired the cart to the exact chart ScottyB gave me when I bought the controler (the attached picture). The only difference is the solinoid is not conected to the main 4G wires in the chart but it is in my cart. I have another series EZGO that I am also referencing that is wired the same except for the controler (different company made the controler). Also, I have a different charger so I bypassed the inhibiter switch, which is now connected to the main + connection.

Here are the problems I am having and maybe someone has the solution. I have 51V coming into the solinoid with no diode or resister (just to eliminate options). On the other side, I only have 2V. On my working cart I have 38V on the other side. Both go up to 51V when the gas is pressed. When I release the gas on the nonworking cart, the Voltage slowly goes back to 2V (over about 30-45 sec).


THe next issue is the F/R switch. No matter which position the switch is in (F or R), the alarm goes off. Where the orange wire connects to the switch I have 51V in F and 51V in R. On my working cart I only have 51V in R and 0V in F.

The next issue is on the M- terminal on the controler. I have 2V on the terminal at stand still. When I press the throttle I only get 35V. On my working cart I have 38V at stand still and when I press the gas it goes up to 51V.

Again, the cart is wired identicaly to the attached chart. I don't know if all these issues are connected and that is why the cart is not moving. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
I believe there is some misunderstanding someplace. The 4 Ga cables (Heavy black lines) are connected to solenoid on the schematic you posted.

I've outlined the solenoid with a red box and labeled the 4 Ga cable from the battery pack.


If the solenoid is clicking (Activating) you should have Battery Pack voltage on both main terminals. (The ones with the 4 GA cables attached). Without a resistor across the main terminals, when the solenoid is deactivated you should read zero volts, but with a high impedance DVM, you might read a couple volts backfeeding through some of the controller circuits, so I'm not overly concerned with the 2V with pedal up, at least not at this time.

Until you get the same voltage (Full battery pack voltage - 51V)on both main solenoid terminals when the solenoid is activated, the cart won't run, so get that corrected. Might be a bad solenoid, or miswired, or bad cables.


I suspect you've got the blue wire from the keyswitch connected to the "C" or "Com" terminal on MS-4 and the red & orange wires going to beeper and controller respectfully, connected to MS-2. (MS-2 closes in both F&R while MS-4 only closes in R)

Get those two separate issue corrected and the rest will probably disappear.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FSIP ezgo series 94 - present EDITED.JPG (95.5 KB, 0 views)

Last edited by JohnnieB; 05-17-2012 at 04:27 PM.. Reason: Forgot attachment
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Old 05-17-2012, 05:23 PM   #8
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Default Re: DCS to Series conversion fail. Any Ideas?

Ok, sorry about the main wires and the solinoid. I didn't notice the dotted line that you have highlighted in red. That is how I have it wired anyway. When I press the throttle, I do have 51V on both sides of the solinoid. Does the system need the resister to work? I did not think it did?

As for the other issue. I have the red wire from the ITS (under the drivers foot) going to the solinoid as shown. The other red wire from the controler is connected to the ITS adapter then to the solinoid as shown. THe blue wire from the switch is connected to the MS-2 on the F/R switch. Would it screw or burn anything up if I try different configurations with the F/R micros? Like I said, I have everything connected according to the chart but maybe something is different with my F/R switch? It came off an old medalist. The constant power to the MS-4 just isn't making since to me? Thanks again for the help.
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Old 05-17-2012, 06:14 PM   #9
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Default Re: DCS to Series conversion fail. Any Ideas?

Is there a posibility that my main pack (4G) wires are wired to my F/R switch wrong and making this happen? I installed them according to the diagram as if I was looking at the F/R switch. I assumed that was the right way or do you look at it like you were facing the same way. If that is the case the "B" and "D" connections would be the other way than what I have now. If I do cross them, will it burn any thing up?
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Old 05-18-2012, 12:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: DCS to Series conversion fail. Any Ideas?

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Originally Posted by superman51 View Post
1.ok, sorry about the main wires and the solinoid. I didn't notice the dotted line that you have highlighted in red. That is how i have it wired anyway. When i press the throttle, i do have 51v on both sides of the solinoid. Does the system need the resister to work? I did not think it did?

2. as for the other issue. I have the red wire from the its (under the drivers foot) going to the solinoid as shown. The other red wire from the controler is connected to the its adapter then to the solinoid as shown. The blue wire from the switch is connected to the ms-2 on the f/r switch. Would it screw or burn anything up if i try different configurations with the f/r micros? Like i said, i have everything connected according to the chart but maybe something is different with my f/r switch? It came off an old medalist. The constant power to the ms-4 just isn't making since to me? Thanks again for the help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by superman51 View Post
3. is there a posibility that my main pack (4g) wires are wired to my f/r switch wrong and making this happen? I installed them according to the diagram as if i was looking at the f/r switch. I assumed that was the right way or do you look at it like you were facing the same way. If that is the case the "b" and "d" connections would be the other way than what i have now. If i do cross them, will it burn any thing up?
1. Okay, Full pack voltage on both main terminals of solenoid when activated. That's good.
The resistor is used to precharge the filter capacitors across the MOSFETs in the controller, which try to draw infinite amps the instant the battery is connected (Solenoid contacts close) and increases the amount of pitting on the solenoid contacts. Cart will run without it, but solenoid contacts will fail sooner. The increased pitting that occurs during troubleshooting without resistor is more or less negligible and the voltage readings without it in the circuit are less confusing.
FWIW: The same is true with the diode across the solenoid coils. When the solenoid coil de-energizes and huge voltage spike with the opposite polarity is generated by the collapsing magnetic field an hits the switch that opened, breaking the circuit that was energizing the coil and can arc between the contacts, pitting them or in the worst case, welding them together. Typically, this is MS-3 in the throttle box. Because the voltage spike is the opposite polarity of the original voltage, the diode in now forward biased and harmlessly shorts it back to the other side of the coil.
Again, it is okay to troubleshoot without it, but it should be in place for normal cart usage, unless you enjoy replacing MS-3 every now and then.


2. If the solenoid is activating when the throttle pedal is pushed, and deactivates when pedal is up, or when keyswitch is turned off or when F/R is in Neutral, the KSI (Key Switch and Interlock circuit - or ignition circuit) is working, so I wouldn't mess with it.
The Reverse beeper sound in both forward and reverse is a separate issue.
Both MS-2 and MS-4 have B+ applied to them at all times since you've bypassed the Reed switch.
Attached is a drawing showing the indentations in the movable portion of the F/R assembly and how the microswitch levers line up on those indentations when the F/R assembly is in the N, R & F positions.
(Note: MS-4 on your F/R is labeled MS-1 in the drawing)
MS-2 contacts are open in N and closed in both F and R.
MS-4 contacts are only closed in R.
If the above conditions are not true, something is mechanically wrong with the microswitches or the F/R cam.
For the time being, disconnect the jumper from MS-2 to MS-4. Cart should run without it.
The reverse beeper won't sound and Reverse will not be half speed, but other than that it should work.

3. The function of the F/R switch is to change the direction of current flow in the Stator windings relative to the current flow in the Armature windings.
I believe the same basic design has been used since the beginning of time, but I have seen schematics of them wired differently.
On the schematic you have:
The top terminal is connected to B+ (either from the B+ terminal on controller or the controller side terminal on the solenoid)
The bottom terminal is connected to A2 terminal on motor.
The left terminal is connected to S2 on motor.
The right terminal is connected to S1 on motor.
That wiring combination will run the motor.
If the direction of cart does not match the direction selected by the F/R switch, reverse the cables on the left and right F/R terminals.

Here is a drawing of the high current circuit of a generic Series cart.
It shows the function of the F/R switch a little clearer than the schematic you have.
(Disregard the cable from A2 on controller to A2 on motor, it doesn't exist on your cart.)

-------------------------

With Keyswitch ON, F/R in F, measure voltage between B- and M- on controller.
When pedal is pushed just far enough for solenoid to click, you should get full pack voltage. (51V)
As you push pedal to floor, voltage should drop to zero, or close to it. (IE: <5V)

If not, either the controller is not being told to pass current through motor, or the controller is bad.

I'm not familiar with the ITS interface shown on the schematic, so if you do get the 51V between B- and M-, you'll have to contact whoever you got it from to find out how to check it.

Hope this helps,
John
Attached Images
File Type: jpg F-N-R with microswitches on cam.JPG (60.5 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg Hi Current Circuit - Series Motor - EDITED.JPG (63.6 KB, 0 views)
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