I think I have had Sepex and Series backwards

[GradyTX]

Wait, I think I get it... correct me if I am wrong again.... the issue is, I listed the MOT-B4.. so.. which controller would I need to use the MOT-B4, (1996 TXT ) since that honestly looks like a lot better engine.. lol

And, would I still need the SW202, if I have the different controller?

Thank you!

[JohnnieB]

In a SepEx (SEParately EXcited) drive system, switching the direction the cart goes is done inside the controller and the F/R switch has low amp contacts. A simple spdt or dpdt switch is used.

In a Series drive system, switching the cart's direction is done outside the controller and the F/R switch has high amp contacts. Either a mechanical switch with high amp contacts is needed or a high amp reversing contactor is needed.

Sounds like you have a 96 txt series drive cart and you want to use a MOT-B4 sepex drive motor. To do so, you need to replace the series drive control wiring with sepex control wiring. I'd go with either PDS or TXT-48 control wiring harnesses since the DCS wiring harness doesn't have provisions for the MOT-B4's speed sensor and a XCT controller works better with a speed sensor.

The suffix for the XCT part number is determined by the sepex wiring harness installed. XCT48500-PDS or XCT48500-TXT48.


Bottom line: About the only things in the series drive system that can be reused for a sepex system is the keyswitch, pedal switch, ITS senor and some of the high amp cables.

[GradyTX]

Well, that will work for me since I am only leaving the pedal itself.. lol.. all wiring is getting replaced, even the key switch if I have to :P

I really appreciate the help, Johnny. I know I am throwing a lot of info at folks, so it was easy to get the wrong part mixed in. I think I was told I had to use the SR series before they understood I wanted to ditch the mechanical switch.

So, the PDS or the TXT-48... any reason to use one or the other, or just toss-up?
Eh... going to take a bit to get this all done, so I have plenty to work on while I hash out all the parts to pull this together. I like the MOT-b4 specs better than the MOT-B1, so either need to build with that in mind, or figure a path to a similar motor. I do not have to use the B4, but the link I was looking at had that one as a choice so was able to compare models and it seems "beefier".. heh. I could be way off base, but will figure it out by the time I get there;)

@JohnnieB just noticed your signature. You went 6v and still got 28mph plus 30 mile range? I thought I needed to go 8v to get that sort of performance.

Thanks again!

Russ

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by GradyTX

Well, that will work for me since I am only leaving the pedal itself.. lol.. all wiring is getting replaced, even the key switch if I have to :P

1. I really appreciate the help, Johnny. I know I am throwing a lot of info at folks, so it was easy to get the wrong part mixed in. I think I was told I had to use the SR series before they understood I wanted to ditch the mechanical switch.

2. So, the PDS or the TXT-48... any reason to use one or the other, or just toss-up?

3. Eh... going to take a bit to get this all done, so I have plenty to work on while I hash out all the parts to pull this together. I like the MOT-b4 specs better than the MOT-B1, so either need to build with that in mind, or figure a path to a similar motor. I do not have to use the B4, but the link I was looking at had that one as a choice so was able to compare models and it seems "beefier".. heh. I could be way off base, but will figure it out by the time I get there;)

4. @JohnnieB just noticed your signature. You went 6v and still got 28mph plus 30 mile range? I thought I needed to go 8v to get that sort of performance.

Thanks again!

Russ

1. The trick is getting everybody on the same page. You are converting a series drive cart to a sepex drive cart.

2. More or less a tossup. I'd go with whichever was less complex or was less expensive.

3. A B1 is a series wound motor while a B4 is a shunt wound (sepex), so there is no direct comparisons. Sorta like comparing apples and oranges, they both grow on trees and both sold by the bushel, but not much else in common. The specific model sepex motor needed should be based on the tire height, what the cart will be used for, top speed desired and terrain driven on. Tall tires, or steep hills or heavy loads need more torque.

4. I was looking for a 30+ mile range rather than speed or torque and I wanted to keep everything under the seat, so I went with a 42V battery pack using seven high storage capacity (245AH) 6V batteries, since six of the highest capacity 8V battery available was the Trojan Ranger 160 (8V - 204AH) and only gave me 9.8kWh of storage while the the 7 x 6V 245AH gave me 10.3kWh and was less expensive.

My tires are only 17" tall, which decreases top speed by 5.6%, but ups the torque by 5.9%.
Upping the pack voltage by 16.7% ups both speed and torque by 16.7%, so the net results was an 11.1% increase in speed and a 22.6 increase in torque while using a stock PDS motor. The cart would do 28.5MPH, but the motor was spinning at over 7000RPM. Based on numerous 10 to 15 mile tests, my estimated range was up to about 37 miles.

After exploding the stock PDS motor, which in turn took out the Alltrax DCX controller I was running (no speed sensor, so no rpm limiting), I installed a XCT controller and a D&D motor with 30% more than stock torque and roughly stock speed. It will still go over 28MPH and the estimated range was still over 30 miles. However, I RPM limited the motor to 6500RPM, so the top speed is now 26.4MPH.

All total, I have about 50% more than stock torque so I have more torque than the turf tires have traction and the steepest hills my cart will climb is limited by the tires slipping.

[GradyTX]

Ok, well.. while I am more into torque it is more about not wanting to put 4 people on the cart and have it do 10mph.. heh, hence why I was looking torque vs speed.

So, essentially, I really do not have a lot of "hills", i.e. no major inclines.. all very very gradual.

I would like some "cool" tires but do not need a lift kit as this is for driving around the neighborhood, nothing else major. I was thinking 215/40 12's with red wheels ;) My son loves those so, plenty fine. If those can go on the stock frame, then I am not really worried about lifting the cart.

So, easily being able to do 15mph no matter the load, do not need to go 30mph.
If 215/40 12 wheels/tires can go on the stock, then no lift kit needed.
I want off Series and onto SEPEX as I do not like the mechanical shift.
Lots of lights and a small stereo, heh.
Will be adding 6 Trojan T-875 batteries, unless I am told there is something better for longer distances.

Other than that, would rather have more engine, and control it and the rpm, than have "enough" and have it taxed, if that makes sense.

Sorry for my ignorance, just a lot of input from a lot of directions and thought I had it down pat, but looks like I had the wrong config heh.

btw, my son and I power washed her a bit, just to get an idea of how much grime would come off, not to prep for paint heh... the dirt pile was just what fell off before.. :P

Thanks Johnnie

R

[JohnnieB]

A 215/40-12 tire is roughly 18.9" tall and a TXT cart can typically take 20" tall tires without lifting, so that should work.

The slightly taller than stock tires will cost you about 4.6% in torque, but that's only a drop in the bucket when compared to the 22% loss of the 23" tire some people put on their carts.

All carts slow going up hills. Series drives are the slow the most and while Sepex drives don't slow as much, they still do slow some. One way to trick unknowing passengers and observers that the cart isn't slowing on hills is to RPM limit the motor to the RPM that equals the max uphill speed on the steepest hill around. Basically, the controller feathers the throttle as the max RPM setting is reached and the opens the throttle more as the mechanical load increases due to going uphill.

With 18.8" tall tires and stock gears in differential (12.44:1) the motor spins at 3336RPM when the cart is doing 15MPH, so a high torque sepex shouldn't have any trouble reaching that RPM at 48V. In other words, you have several motors to chose from.

a 49V pack using T-875 (170AH) batteries stores about 8.16kWh of energy (this is roughly the same energy stored in a standard 36V battery pack), while using T-890 (190AH) stores 9.12kWh and using Ranger-160 (204AH) batteries stores 9.79kWh.

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It does get confusing.

[GradyTX]

So... forgetting resale value, do not care about that personally....is there a value swapping to 48v if 15-20mph is my goal?

Is the 205/30 12 the stock size tire? My son likes the red, so does not matter to me if it is 205/30 12 heh.

You can see my goal, comfort and keep the cost low .. but okay with spending a little extra for some "cool factor" too.. heh...just do not want to go too crazy with it.. I do not mind at all going 48v, but want to make sure I am not throwing money at what I do not need.

Thank you for all the help btw

Russ

[JohnnieB]

Originally Posted by GradyTX

1. So... forgetting resale value, do not care about that personally....is there a value swapping to 48v if 15-20mph is my goal?

2. Is the 205/30 12 the stock size tire? My son likes the red, so does not matter to me if it is 205/30 12 heh.

3. You can see my goal, comfort and keep the cost low .. but okay with spending a little extra for some "cool factor" too.. heh...just do not want to go too crazy with it.. I do not mind at all going 48v, but want to make sure I am not throwing money at what I do not need.

Thank you for all the help btw

Russ

1. Traction motors run cooler at 48V as well as all the other components in the entire high amp circuit. For example: If it takes 3kW of energy to propel the cart up a grade, you need 83.3A@36V or 62.5A@48V and heat increases exponentially as amps increase linearly (W = I² * R). You also get 33% more speed and torque at 48V than you do at 36V. EZGO stopped using 36V battery packs as well as series drives circa 2010.

2. A 205/30-12 tire is only 16.8" tall while the stock tire height is 18".

3.

[NCPW]

Word of advise since you're doing a complete overhaul; I've never heard anyone complain about going from 36V to 48V. Good luck with the build.

[GradyTX]

I do not mind going 48v, just figured to ask if it is worth it.

So, total rebuild, just need to revise the build list for a 96 txt and not using the SR series.

Not a huge deal, just need to re-figure what all parts will be needed.

Thanks!

Russ